ok, here's a toughy(atleast i think so)

[8*B@LL]

ok, here is a scheme i think should be hard enough to break.
first i'll just post the crypted string, but you WILL need a hint, so i'll include one at the end.

620344603626-4-1-3-8-5-7-2-6-9
now this is simplified a bit to make it a little easier to see what's going on(the numbers after each "-" should be made to look more randomish, which can be done quite easily)

and here are your hints:
1) the number after each dash indicates a position.
2) this evaluates to a string containing only letter(s) space(s) and period(s), but could easily be extended to include numbers and symbols

as a side note, this is a crypt that myself and some friends in HS thought up on our own, but i bet that the same basis has been used before(and probably quite a bit better).

[draziw]

Have you ever noticed that the shorter a block of "crpyto" or obfuscated text is, the tougher it can be to break given a static key or simple rule?

<edit>
Example: 66676263207667
</edit>

[8*B@LL]

well if you wish i can crypt a whole paragraph or something, but its gonna take some time cause i havent written a program to do the conversion for me and i dont have a compiler on this pc...just for the record, the string represented there is 9 charecters(including all space(s) and period(s) ).

[edit: DOH! had put 7 instead of 9...that woulda messed everybody up :-D]

[draziw]

Originally posted here (http://www.AntiOnline.com/showthread.php?threadid=#post) by 8*B@LL
[edit: DOH! had put 7 instead of 9...that woulda messed everybody up :-D]

Having you keep foo'ing the text surely doesn't help the matter - and, I'd bet, makes people less inclined to try...

[8*B@LL]

erm...i put 7 instead of 9 in my second post where it now says "just for the record, the string represented there is 9 charecters"

i just hit 7 by mistake...the first post is perfect(i've checked it and all...did no math for it by hand)

[8*B@LL]

oh...you mean because the first one is edited...i did that when i decided to put a hint in it right away instead of posting a reply.

[8*B@LL]

infact, give me a minimum number of charecters and i'll crypt something else...i mean what is the point at which you think it becomes reasonable to attempt to crack it?

[xmaddness]

/me is confused

[xmaddness]

okay, i've broken it down to four sets of doubl numbers,

62 03 4 4 6 03 62 6

or

62 62 03 03 4 4 6 6

but thats only 8 charcters. I figure the 03 is prolly used as a space because of its odd value.

so

62 _ 4 4 6 _ 62 6 hmmm.. now what? I have no clue, 8-ball, am I even close?


Is anyone else working on this?

[8*B@LL]

Originally posted here (http://www.AntiOnline.com/showthread.php?threadid=#post) by xmaddness
I have no clue, 8-ball, am I even close?

nope...if it were straight forward substitution like that there would be no need for notation at the end showing "positions"

[8*B@LL]

i may as well throw in annother hint:
you will need to do some basic math on the first number(no constants involved really...its not like some stupid "add 359 then divide by 3 and square it" thing)

[xmaddness]

8 ball, 3715217-3-1-2-4

[draziw]

I had figured that the numbers were an encoded set of letters (though there's 12 digits there and nine positions). The hyphenated numbers indicated the order, I thought... but that's as much as I've looked at it in-between fires today.

[8*B@LL]

xmadness - you passed :-D

[8*B@LL]

just for the record, it still hasn't been broken(xmaddness pm'd me and asked how it was done), and i'm still willing to crypt whatever size text you wish if you specify...hell, i'll even crypt any spefic text you want...what i'm really looking for is if anybody can break the algorithm.

[ammo]

8-ball: can you give us a cleartext/ciphertext pair?

Ammo

[8*B@LL]

sure, no problem.
the cleartext to the challenge is "break me."

[8*B@LL]

the cleartext is in the above post...i made it hidden incase sombody out there is still crazy enough to try to break it from scratch:D

annother small hint is that if i was to use a VERY small ammount of text it would actually get much easier to break it. with what i used i'd say its fairly hard from the outside. if i were to do a really big piece of text i think it would probably be really hard to break(although certian aspects would become obvious immeadiatly)

[ammo]

Argh.. what was the cleartext to xmadness' ciphertext?

Ammo

[8*B@LL]

xmasness' ciphertext is "test" in cleartext.

[8*B@LL]

once again i marked it as hidden for the massochists out there.

here's annother hint: dont look for straightforward 1 to 1 corilations(dont try breaking up the first number into pairs/triplets/whatever...it hast to be intact to decrypt it unless there is some wierd method that i'm not aware of...and there shouldn't be).

the other hint is that this is a crappy alg. in that it is 100% dependant on the alg. to get the output, as there is no key to it.

[8*B@LL]

if anybody is actually working on this, when you give up go ahead and post and i'll post the algorythm.

i kinda get the feeling this thread is just gonna wind up droping off the page cause its so damn hard when you dont know what your looking for.

[ammo]

I'm going mad! I'm just about ready to give up...
Is the text encoded in ascii or just 1-26 alphabet or what?

Ammo

[Proud]

Well:2) this evaluates to a string containing only letter(s) space(s) and period(s), but could easily be extended to include numbers and symbols, so it's got to be ascii.

Next:(the numbers after each "-" should be made to look more randomish, which can be done quite easily)But1) the number after each dash indicates a position.

If you pick the xth letter and write them in order defined by the -x numbers, there's always 3 characters left over. Does this tie in with you will need to do some basic math on the first number(no constants involved really...its not like some stupid "add 359 then divide by 3 and square it" thing)?

------------
3715217-3-1-2-4 converts to test

1375 remainder 217, which is + in ascii, right?

-------------
620344603626-4-1-3-8-5-7-2-6-9 converts to break me.

360046243 remainder 626, which is r in ascii, right?
Converting the remainder characters to ascii doesn't seem to help. :( :p

[hurt-conveyor]

This is tough

[Proud]

Just realised I'd posted the clear text versions without hiding them. :o

This could take a while to crack. Can we have 1 more clue tomorrow? :rolleyes:

[xmaddness]

Here is a longer cypher for this example. 8-ball check my math on this one.

2180498824650592300013072305634-9-18-14-2-3-6-11-13-17-12-16-4-7-1-5-8-10-15-19

This cyphers to "This is a long one."

Pretty ingenious for a couple HS students if you ask me. Although as you can see encrypting long letters and documents can become tedious.


NOTE.. I crunched the numbers for like 2 hours strait, using many different techniques and mathematical expressions before giving up, and when i found out i was rather mad at myself for missing one of the most basic properties of math.

[hurt-conveyor]

Originally posted here (http://www.AntiOnline.com/showthread.php?threadid=#post) by 8*B@LL
just for the record, it still hasn't been broken(xmaddness pm'd me and asked how it was done), and i'm still willing to crypt whatever size text you wish if you specify...hell, i'll even crypt any spefic text you want...what i'm really looking for is if anybody can break the algorithm.

Will you encrypt the words 'a', 'as', and 'as.' (without the quotes of course)??

I have tried many things but havent figure it out yet. Maybe this would help.

[8*B@LL]

Originally posted here (http://www.AntiOnline.com/showthread.php?threadid=#post) by hurt-conveyor


Will you encrypt the words 'a', 'as', and 'as.' (without the quotes of course)??

I have tried many things but havent figure it out yet. Maybe this would help.

ok, but i'm pretty sure that will be a dead give-away, so i'll put it in the next post hidden

[8*B@LL]

"a"
2-1
"as"
134-1-2
"as."
14338-1-2-3

[8*B@LL]

Originally posted here (http://www.AntiOnline.com/showthread.php?threadid=#post) by ammo
I'm going mad! I'm just about ready to give up...
Is the text encoded in ascii or just 1-26 alphabet or what?

Ammo

hmm...well its not really dependant on ascii code in any way. now after thinking about it its pretty much just 1-26 alphabet+a few chars(space/period are all i included in this, but like i said its easy to include more).

[hurt-conveyor]

Tell me if im wrong, but I don't think there is enough info given to figure this out. There seems to be no correlation to an ASCII value.

[hurt-conveyor]

hmm...well its not really dependant on ascii code in any way. now after thinking about it its pretty much just 1-26 alphabet+a few chars(space/period are all i included in this, but like i said its easy to include more). [/B]

I would say that it would be pretty much impossible to crack without that info. You should have said that from the beginning.

[8*B@LL]

Originally posted here (http://www.AntiOnline.com/showthread.php?threadid=#post) by hurt-conveyor
I would say that it would be pretty much impossible to crack without that info. You should have said that from the beginning.

not really...also, just for clarity its not based on like a=1 b=2 ... y=25 z=26. its also not based on ascii codes. now, because it is purely numbers, there is obviously some # to letter corilation, but its not nearly as basic as 1 through 26 or ascii.

another kinda-hint is that that it is not case-sensitive.

also, if it were impossible to crack without me giving hints then i would be VERY rich right now cause i would have sold it to some inteligence agency or something.

[8*B@LL]

i just found something you guys should prolly know. xmadness' first post with cyphertext and my reply are misleading. his crypt was actually slightly wrong:
3715217-3-1-2-4
actually evaluates to "stet".
"test" is 3715217-2-3-1-4

sorry, i guess cause i wanted to see a word i saw one *embarrased*

i have, however now triple checked his "This is a long one." post and it is definatly 100% accurate.

[edit: added the following]
i'm gonna post a log of a aim chat i just had with theHurtConveyer, as i think the convo may help others who are trying to break it. it is also what lead to my discovery of the above^

the HurtConveyor (4:25:05 AM): its tough to break
the HurtConveyor (4:25:41 AM): let me ask u a question about it
Jesus SCSU (4:25:46 AM): go for it
the HurtConveyor (4:26:04 AM): will changing the positions affect the code?
the HurtConveyor (4:26:16 AM): for example what if the positions were 1-2-3-4
the HurtConveyor (4:26:23 AM): or if they were 3-1-2-4
the HurtConveyor (4:26:27 AM): would the code change?
Jesus SCSU (4:26:38 AM): you mean the first number?
the HurtConveyor (4:26:43 AM): ya
Jesus SCSU (4:26:55 AM): nope
the HurtConveyor (4:27:05 AM): interesting
the HurtConveyor (4:27:21 AM): this is my thoughts then...
the HurtConveyor (4:27:35 AM): 3715217-3-1-2-4
the HurtConveyor (4:27:39 AM): is test
Jesus SCSU (4:27:42 AM): yep
the HurtConveyor (4:27:50 AM): so does that mean the first number evaluates to stet?
Jesus SCSU (4:28:54 AM): no...that means the first number evaluates to:
estt
Jesus SCSU (4:29:12 AM): (giving away alot there :-D)
Jesus SCSU (4:29:19 AM): er
Jesus SCSU (4:29:21 AM): no
Jesus SCSU (4:29:23 AM): i'm wrong
Jesus SCSU (4:29:25 AM): hehe
Jesus SCSU (4:29:49 AM): methinks something is wrong there
the HurtConveyor (4:29:57 AM): hmm
Jesus SCSU (4:30:06 AM): just a sec
the HurtConveyor (4:30:08 AM): well heres the one u did
the HurtConveyor (4:30:09 AM): 620344603626-4-1-3-8-5-7-2-6-9
Jesus SCSU (4:30:12 AM): gonna crunch some numbers
the HurtConveyor (4:30:20 AM): which should evaluate to abeekmr .
Jesus SCSU (4:30:42 AM): yea
Jesus SCSU (4:30:50 AM): i'm sure mine's right :-D
the HurtConveyor (4:31:34 AM): yea...so if you were to change the latter numbers to 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 then the first number would have to be completely different
Jesus SCSU (4:32:31 AM): well if i were to change the latter numbers the output would be "abeekmr ." and there wouldnt be anything i could do about it
the HurtConveyor (4:32:56 AM): thats what i thought
Jesus SCSU (4:33:13 AM): the reason the positions are needed is because the first number imply's no position for any particular char.(again, probably giving away alot)
the HurtConveyor (4:33:53 AM): well i knew that
the HurtConveyor (4:34:07 AM): cause if it did then it would be like 001002003 or something of the sort
the HurtConveyor (4:34:12 AM): which could be abc
Jesus SCSU (4:34:26 AM): heh, yea...and that would be easy to break
the HurtConveyor (4:34:27 AM): or w/e
the HurtConveyor (4:34:32 AM): indeed it would
the HurtConveyor (4:34:37 AM): let me ask u this
Jesus SCSU (4:34:40 AM): k
the HurtConveyor (4:34:49 AM): i understand that there is a certain math operation
the HurtConveyor (4:35:02 AM): could be adding, subtracting in someway or something else
the HurtConveyor (4:35:30 AM): can i do the required math in my head or with a simple calculator?
Jesus SCSU (4:36:26 AM): well it could be done in your head, but the bigger the number the harder it gets.
also, the most basic of calculators will not do what your looking for on its own, but it would help(trying not to give TOO much away here)
the HurtConveyor (4:38:05 AM): ok
Jesus SCSU (4:38:22 AM): but(here's a hint) it is one of the things you learn in your k-8 years(atleast i'm pretty sure it was...definatly by freshman year in HS)
the HurtConveyor (4:39:08 AM): so its probably a basic algebra algorithm
Jesus SCSU (4:40:13 AM): encryption, yes is extremely basic. decryption is a little harder(i do use a specalty program for now to make it easier)
Jesus SCSU (4:40:32 AM): its harder because your working with the hole as aposed to all the components, if you get what i'm saying
the HurtConveyor (4:40:42 AM): indeed i do
Jesus SCSU (4:42:18 AM): if anybody does figure it out before i am begged into posting the algo, i wouldnt be surprised if they just kinda stumbled on it. have you looked at my "a" "as" "as." answer?
the HurtConveyor (4:42:36 AM): yea i saw that
the HurtConveyor (4:43:01 AM): its still complicated
Jesus SCSU (4:43:07 AM): well you actually get to see a single char crypted there, so that should help ya a little:-)
the HurtConveyor (4:43:16 AM): i cant find a definate pattern
the HurtConveyor (4:43:21 AM): yea..
the HurtConveyor (4:43:31 AM): what is s by itself?
Jesus SCSU (4:43:53 AM): hehe, this most likely will give it away, so are you sure you wanna see it?
the HurtConveyor (4:43:58 AM): no
the HurtConveyor (4:44:00 AM): i dont then
Jesus SCSU (4:44:06 AM): k
the HurtConveyor (4:44:19 AM): i must say..this is pretty fun
the HurtConveyor (4:44:28 AM): it has taken me a while
Jesus SCSU (4:44:39 AM): yea, i figured atleast a few people would get a kick out of working on it
the HurtConveyor (4:44:54 AM): i like problem solving like this
the HurtConveyor (4:46:04 AM): i just found something out i think
the HurtConveyor (4:46:08 AM): im looking at as
Jesus SCSU (4:46:14 AM): yea?
the HurtConveyor (4:46:27 AM): and i see that 3-1 is 2 which is the number of chars
the HurtConveyor (4:46:32 AM): them added together is 4
the HurtConveyor (4:46:34 AM): then as.
the HurtConveyor (4:46:43 AM): 4-1 is 3 the number of chars
the HurtConveyor (4:47:03 AM): nm it must just be a coincidence
Jesus SCSU (4:47:12 AM): yea, it is
the HurtConveyor (4:53:57 AM): could u tell me what as is
the HurtConveyor (4:54:08 AM): but instead with the latter numbers of 2-1
Jesus SCSU (4:54:45 AM): you mean if i kept the # and had same#-2-1?
Jesus SCSU (4:55:07 AM): then it would be sa:-)
the HurtConveyor (4:55:08 AM): well that would make it sa
the HurtConveyor (4:55:11 AM): yea
Jesus SCSU (4:55:11 AM): yea
the HurtConveyor (4:55:24 AM): so sa is 431-1-2
Jesus SCSU (4:56:05 AM): no, sa is 134-2-1
Jesus SCSU (4:56:16 AM): "as"
134-1-2
Jesus SCSU (4:56:22 AM): from the forums
the HurtConveyor (4:56:24 AM): is that the only way u could evaluate it tho?
Jesus SCSU (4:56:56 AM): if your asking is "as" always 134-1-2, then yes
the HurtConveyor (4:56:57 AM): u couldnt evaluate it in such a way that you could make the latter numbers 1-2 but change the first number?
the HurtConveyor (4:57:18 AM): im talking about sa
Jesus SCSU (4:57:44 AM): nope, sa will always be 134-2-1
the HurtConveyor (4:58:05 AM): wow
the HurtConveyor (4:58:10 AM): thats interesting
Jesus SCSU (4:58:24 AM): yea, i think that xmadness screwed up his first post

p.s. if for some reason you want me to remove that chat hurt, just let me know and it'll dissapear.

[Tim_axe]

Hmmm... I've been thinking this over a little, but hadn't been able to give it full thought... It might be similar to what I was attempting to do with my TI-83 calculator, but I'm not sure...

I wanted to make a chat program for my calculator... My delima was that my calculator could only store numbers (I found out you can store strings, later, though...). I used some math, and was able to get a number, but my program would generally decrypt the letters in the wrong order. For certain words, the order would be fine, but others, it got messy. If it is similar to what I was doing there, then I'd understand why you'd tell about the order with it. I just haven't had time to figure out what values get some operation on to them... My job is away from computers, and requires *lots* of concentration, so I've only had about 30 minutes to browse at this... I think I might know what the values could be, so I'm going to see. It would explain why you need to tell the order, if my guess is correct...

-Tim_axe

[ammo]

I think that without knowing the character table used, it will be pretty near impossible to decipher...

Ammo

[hurt-conveyor]

Originally posted here (http://www.AntiOnline.com/showthread.php?threadid=#post) by 8*B@LL
p.s. if for some reason you want me to remove that chat hurt, just let me know and it'll dissapear. [/B]

Nah man, it's fine

[xmaddness]

No, this is definetly possible.. And sorry about the first post with test.. I thought i had it right, but you can be assured my long one is accurate (i did the math about ten times).

This is very doable. It involves one of the main principles of mathematics. And no you don't need the table, you already know it. :)

[ammo]

I'm giving up!!! Somebody PM the answer!

Ammo

[8*B@LL]

Originally posted here (http://www.AntiOnline.com/showthread.php?threadid=#post) by ammo
I'm giving up!!! Somebody PM the answer!

done, it should be in your inbox now.

[8*B@LL]

ok, if anybody is still working on this let me know, cause if not i'm just going to post the algorithm.

[Tim_axe]

8*B@LL - And I'll post the program I've written to decrypt it... (When this challenge is done, that is)

Limitations: Number to decrypt must be smaller than (2^32) - 1 (I think...)... If you have a 64-bit system, feel free to recompile the code to decrypt those longer ones... I still haven't had time to work on an encrypting program, yet, though...


I'll release source, etc., but it is a bit messy... You have been warned...

-Tim_axe

[8*B@LL]

well i guess nobody is still working on this so here's the answer:
the char table goes A-Z, SPACE, Period.
go through assigning prime nummbers(a =2, b = 3, c = 5...z=101, SPACE = 103, Period = 107).

now, look through the list and note the positions of the smallest number, then the second smallest, ect. this forms the position list at the end. you then multiply each of the numbers that represent the letters together, forming the first number.

to get back to the cleartext, you get the prime factorization of the first number, then convert it to letters and put them in alphabetical order. from there you just take the first letter and put it in the first position, and do the same with the second ect.

thats how it works :D

[Proud]

I'm kinda glad I didn't continue...Prime numbers? eew! ;)

Don't worry, this isn't wasted, I'll use it as the basis of my first Python project. It seems a nice little bunch of algorithms to work on :)