The following transcript was taken from a non-computer related message board. It was suggested that it be transferred word by word to a security forum in order to see who is right.

Who is right, SirHappyShoes or CheeseOnWaffles?

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Randomguy28: ok, if you format your pc, can things still be retrieved using hardware recovery t-o-o-ls?

RandomGuy34: Most definitely not.

RandomGuy53: Seconded. A formatted hard drive is gone gone gone. I forgot to save several homework assignments while reformatting and lost them for good.

Hopefully the data you want isn't that hard to get again.

RandomGuy93: Actually, some/most of the data is still there, because it has not been overwritten. I'm not too familiar with the process, but look for some "Data Recovery" software or a business dealing with the same name. The only way for everything to be gone is by overwriting the entire disk.

Patrick.

RandomGuy11: i think "data recovery" after you've reformatted is really hard. unless you know what yer doin. which means i can't do it.

SirHappyShoes: Formatted hard drives are NOT erased. Almost any data recovery software will be able to see and recover most of the information on the drive, provided that sector hasn't been overwritten by new data.

RandomGuy14: what do you mean, overwriting? how can you overwrite it? damn, are any recovery tools free? i lost an entire report on accident and i dont wanna do it again!!!

RandomGuy53: From RandomGuy93's post it looks as if the software is not free, and may require a seperate business.
By overwriting data I'm pretty sure it would refer to the data sectors of your hard drive, and it would be able to recover the data if it hasn't already been rewritten over by a different program or document.

RandomGuy77: Whenever you remove anything from your harddrive or reformat you are not actually deleting anything, you are giving the compute permission to use the space for new and different information. When you delete an mp3 that mp3 remains there until something new is placed where it was.

Recovering data can be aggravating for a couple of reasons: there is no program that can really make it "easy" for the average user and because unless you are attempting to recover something almost immediately after deletion the computer has likely already decided to use that space for something else or at least part of it leaving an incomplete file.

RandomGuy14: damn

CheeseOnWaffles: Formatting makes you lose everything. No data recovery software can help you get things back after you format. Unless... you use that software to do the formatting. For example, if you just do "format C:" at a command prompt, you're not going to be able to get anything back. The simple solution is, emailing your needed files to yourself, putting them on an FTP server, or burning them onto a CD-R or DVD-R.

RandomGuy5:


Quote:
CheeseOnWaffles wrote:
Formatting makes you lose everything. No data recovery software can help you get things back after you format. [...]

The voice of ignorance, ladies and gentlemen.

The only way to render data unretreivable is to write over it several times (some say a dozen, just to be safe). All formatting does is set the file tables to zero -- it doesn't actually remove the files. Even writing over the data dozens of times doesn't guarantee that the original files are unrecoverable.

There are reasons that groups like the DOD require hard drives to be *destroyed* before being released from their custody, not just to format them and throw them in the trash.

SirHappyShoes:

Quote:
there is no program that can really make it "easy" for the average user


Not true. There's tons of programs that do data recovery. Some are a flat fee and some you pay per MB of data recovered. I've used Restorer2000, which is $50 - it works fine and is simple to use.

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The only way to render data unretreivable is to write over it several times


Well, there are utilities that stream zeros across your hard drive.

CheeseOnWaffles: Voice of ignorance? I'm speaking to a mainstream computer user. I don't want him to buy some recovery toool, in hopes that their unbelievable marketeting schemes makes him think it will be no problem getting all the files on his computer back. 'Cause what will probably happen is... Some of his directories will probably be in tact but the majority of his files will be corrupted. Without hardcore tools like EnCase, the chance of recovery with popular applications is still a risk that is too high to take for valuable, mission-critical data. If I were speaking to someone willing to put in some real work or willing to run that hard drive as a slave, I'd still say that it's very difficult to recover data.

Anyways (RandomGuy5), even computer security experts can't recover your files dependant on how you've chosen to format your drive. If you use WinXP install to format, it's a High-level format. However, if you know who made your harddrive, you can possibly get a Low-level format application from their website. Low-level formatting makes it pretty much impossible to recover anything. Even if you can't find a Low-level format from your hard disk's manufacturer, you can use software such as "Active@ Killdisk" that will erase data by the U.S. Dept. of Defense's "DoD 5220.22-M" standard of cleaning and sanitizing.

(To)SirHappyShoes: you're right, writing zero's to every sector of the drive will do the trick.... as well as making the drive remap out it's sectors all over again with a Low-level format. However, this wears the
drive down.

SirHappyShoes:

Quote:
Voice of ignorance? I'm speaking to a mainstream computer user.


That still doesn't change the fact that your post was wrong.

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I don't want him to buy some recovery tool, in hopes that their unbelievable marketeting schemes makes him think it will be no problem getting all the files on his computer back.


Um...I'm guessing you haven't used any data recovery software(?). It really is quite easy to use, and quite successful. Off of a 10GB partition, I've recovered 6GB of data - almost the entire contents of the drive prior to it being formatted.

I'm curious as to why you think a format would corrupt all the files that used to appear on a drive.

CheeseOnWaffles: Experience.

My post was not wrong. It depends how you format, whether or not its even POSSIBLE to recover data. Either way, it's still highly difficult.

SirHappyShoes:

Quote:
My post was not wrong.


Quote:
For example, if you just do "format C:" at a command prompt, you're not going to be able to get anything back.


You were saying something?

Quote:
Either way, it's still highly difficult.


Well, apparently your "experience" is rather limited. Data recovery is both cheap and easy.

CheeseOnWaffles: Nevermind.

SirHappyShoes: I figured as much.

RandomGuy1: also from what Ive heard.. everything that has ever been on your hard drive will always be there unless you destroy the drive.. or there are some programs that supposedly get rid of all of everything

SirHappyShoes: That's basically what I've been saying, but CheeseOnWaffles, for some reason, believes otherwise.

RandomGuy1: well they can basically see anything youve ever had on your computer unless you crush or somehow destroy the platters

SirHappyShoes: Or write zeros to the drive.

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The following transcript was taken from a non-computer related message board. It was suggested that it be transferred word by word to a security forum in order to see who is right.
Who is right, SirHappyShoes or CheeseOnWaffles?