Would you bomb the UK?

This is a topical question rather than anything IT related but I thought it would be interesting to get some feedback from you folks across the Atlantic.

If UK Police arrested Osama Bin Laden at Heathrow Airport for example, there is a good possibility that we would not extradite him to the US, as you boys have the death penalty.

As the UK does not approve of this, I believe our law would forbid us from doing so.

How would the US respond and would you try to force us to extradite?

I am no expert on this subject but it was discussed on Radio 4 the other day, I thought it might make an interesting debate.

Regards,


Steve.

bin laden or not, the us should attack the uk

Why should the US attack the UK? That's just plain silly.

It would make the US look no better than Bin Laden. For legitimacy purposes and such, a trial on the World Courts would be far better. At worst it would be life imprisonment but quite possibly the death penalty. (I believe based on my extremely limited understanding).

The US wasn't the only nation affected by Bin Laden. There were many others including Afghanastan (he brought war to the nation by not surrending -- heck, I'd consider that terrorism against the nation)

Now that aside, I would like to point out that the UK has been the biggest and staunchest of supporters of the US and their activities in Afghanastan. I doubt that they would keep Bin Laden away from the US and would probably hand him over.

Personally I'd love to see Bin Laden live so he can watch Afghanastan become successful under something other than the Taliban. It would be ironic justice. ;)

Not very IT related, true...but a good question.

As there was no request for extradition from Afghanistan by the US, in legal terms that is, The capture of Mr Bin Looney would pose problems. if he were moved to the UK, we would have to release him under our current law (see the Ronnie Biggs Kidnap from Rio), But the US allows this sort of manouevre.
Fairly moot point really as he will be executed whilst trying to escape by blinking when he is seen. Shame really as an Islamic trial and summary execution would have much better effects.

An interesting extrapolation of this is:

Should Boston and Glasgow be Bombed by the US forces? Both are known areas for supporting, supplying and harbouring known Protestant and Catholic Terrorist organisations. Does this make them targets?

In a world gone Mad, the Insane are our leaders.:rolleyes:

I think they will have his trial in Holland, just like Milosevic. At least they are planning to do so (if they catch him)

well in this case US will not attack UK as right from the begenning
UK is against osama and it is with US . this is because this war is
not a war were some individual entities are involved but this war is
against global terrorism. and each country is against terrorism.
so if at all UK arrests osama then also according to me it will hand
him over to US immediately...and that will be end of global terrorism...

intruder.... :borg:

this is because this war is not a war were some individual entities are involved but this war is
against global terrorism.

If this was a war against global terrorism then why isn't england and ireland combatting against terrorism on their home front, why aren't UN missions being sent to various war-lord run military states in africa? Or what about the FARC in Columbia? If the US were really set on eliminating global terrorism, then shouldn't they be bombing suspected locations of that psychotic abortion doctor killer in the US, is he not a terrorist?

and each country is against terrorism.

looks more like each country is against the taliban and bin laden, if even that. If each country was against terrorism then shouldn't the United Nations be the primary leaders of such a campaign? I don't recall Kenya showing any significant support, or somalia, or lebanon, or Argentina. Do we see China, a world super power doing much to contribute?

and that will be end of global terrorism...

The entire world's terrorist population consists of only Bin Laden? That is a little naive.

This is certainly not a campaign against terror, it is a campaign in favor of US policy and protectionism. The US are not the only victims of terror in this world, as a matter of fact terrorism is not even a concern to most americans.

As for this ridiculous question, Bin Laden right now is the most sought after and recognizable person on this earth right now, why the hell would he go to england?

The U.S. would bomb the U.K.? Where the hell did that idea come from? The U.K. is our closest ally over here and I don't think we'll care too much about not being able to personally kill bin Laden, just as long as he's properly locked away.

HI,

Sorry but my intensions are being misinterpreted.

It’s a hypothetical debate.

I’m trying to get a feel for how people in the US would react if we refused to hand over Bin Laden.

Please stop taking things so literally.

Steve.

Oops. Misinterpretation. Well...a lot of people here would be pissed if we didn't get bin Laden. But its probably better if the UK handles it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hehbris
[B]this is because this war is not a war were some individual entities are involved but this war is
against global terrorism.

[QUOTE]If this was a war against global terrorism then why isn't england and ireland combatting against terrorism on their home front, why aren't UN missions being sent to various war-lord run military states in africa? Or what about the FARC in Columbia? If the US were really set on eliminating global terrorism, then shouldn't they be bombing suspected locations of that psychotic abortion doctor killer in the US, is he not a terrorist?

Not according to the Laws of the US where he works he isnt, just the people who threaten his life...oh isnt that some sort of terrorism?

and each country is against terrorism.

[QUOTE]looks more like each country is against the taliban and bin laden, if even that. If each country was against terrorism then shouldn't the United Nations be the primary leaders of such a campaign? I don't recall Kenya showing any significant support, or somalia, or lebanon, or Argentina. Do we see China, a world super power doing much to contribute?

No...we have Syria..that well known bastion of not supporting terrorist groups.....did anyone mention Contra? or Sandanista?.

and that will be end of global terrorism...

[QUOTE]The entire world's terrorist population consists of only Bin Laden? That is a little naive.

why does pot, kettle and black spring to mind?

[/I]This is certainly not a campaign against terror, it is a campaign in favor of US policy and protectionism. The US are not the only victims of terror in this world, as a matter of fact terrorism is not even a concern to most americans.[/I]

Probably not, but then it isnt to most people unless they have the problem.

[/I]As for this ridiculous question, Bin Laden right now is the most sought after and recognizable person on this earth right now, why the hell would he go to england? [/I]

Couldnt Agree with you more. Wales, Scotland or Ireland (either) are much nicer at this time of year.:D

Would appreciate it if people didnt keep comparing Bin laden or al Qaeda to the IRA over here.

Im not going into detail but i dont think that these groups are at all similar in motives or tactics.

Be interested to hear from the other Irish on Anti-online.Ennis? and especially Pete Mc Evoy from Belfast.

I know some people who support the IRA over here and would never dream of driving a plane into Downing St or Westminister or ever dream of condoning such an attack.

P.s. im not in the IRA or anything just dont think comparisons can be made.
Anyone in the know from Boston, Ireland, U.K etc agree?

First of all, I don't think the UK wouldn't deliver OBL to the US, I think Blair will call OBL some sort of WarCriminal or push through some sort of law that'll make it possible to sent him to the US regardless.

Second, If UK forces capture OBL, I think they would hand him over to US-forces before they take him to the UK.

Third, if he would be in the UK, and you would keep him, I don't think the US will bomb you. I think they'll be confident you'd punish him to the full extend of your laws. UK has been the States' best pal for years, they don't want to risk anything...

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Originally posted by siouxchief
[/i]Would appreciate it if people didnt keep comparing Bin laden or al Qaeda to the IRA over here. [/i]

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Over where? In America? or in Ireland?

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Im not going into detail but i dont think that these groups are at all similar in motives or tactics.

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IRA and Protestant Groups use Drug money and extortion to fund themselves...striking similarity there...without getting into the nitty gritty of planting bombs in crowded streets or at Rememberance day (veterans day) gatherings.
Both terrorist groups carry out executions of people in front of loved ones\children without regard for anything.

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Be interested to hear from the other Irish on Anti-online.Ennis? and especially Pete Mc Evoy from Belfast.

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Most people directly affected by the terrorism in Northern Ireland would be gratefull to see a cessation of all the tribal lunacy and a peaceful resolution.

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I know some people who support the IRA over here and would never dream of driving a plane into Downing St or Westminister or ever dream of condoning such an attack.

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If they stand up and cheer, or reach into their pockets, when the collecting tins go around then they are supporting the Terrorism, whether it is the republican variety or the red hand variety.

Your friends may not be up for driving a plane into Downing street, but a few Mortars into its gardens are OK?? or an RPG fired at MI6 across the Thames?? or trying to blow up a Bridge across the Thames?

The main point I was trying to make earlier was that Terrorism, and its support, should not be allowed in any country at all.

Answer 1: Over here means Ireland

Answer 2: Vast ,Vast majority of the IRA's money comes from America i.e. Boston ,New York

Extra Fact: IRA are not drug dealers and are known to try and remove dealers from their neighbourhoods.

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without getting into the nitty gritty of planting bombs in crowded streets or at Rememberance day (veterans day) gatherings.
Both terrorist groups carry out executions of people in front of loved ones\children without regard for anything.

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Remember Bloody Sunday? Just for those who dont.British "soldiers" shot dead 14 unarmed people at a civil rights march in Derry.God sounds like terrorism?

http://www.bloodysundaytrust.org/

Also .Rubber and plastic bullets have been used as a means of intimidating and deterring demonstrations in North of Ireland. Since 1973, more than 54,000 of these lethal projectiles have been fired at the civilian population. Seventeen people, eight of them young children, have been killed, most in circumstances which amount to murder. Hundreds have been seriously injured. Injuries include serious mental and physical disablement.

Sounds a bit dodgy too?

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Most people directly affected by the terrorism in Northern Ireland would be gratefull to see a cessation of all the tribal lunacy and a peaceful resolution.

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Yes i agree.

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Your friends may not be up for driving a plane into Downing street, but a few Mortars into its gardens are OK?? or an RPG fired at MI6 across the Thames?? or trying to blow up a Bridge across the Thames?

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I think you are missing my point E-1 which is fair enough cos it is easy to get pissed off when someone is targeting your country and u probably couldnt give a crap about N. Ireland.As a recent poll suggests about 90% of people in england would hand N.ireland back instantly.My point was to point out the fact that Al Qaeda are insane in the fact that they think they are doing the things they do for god.Its a religious thing.They dont care about civilian deaths and have no main "cause".

If you analyse the IRA for a moment.Against popular belief the IRA dont hate british people or protestant people.The founder of Irish Republicanism (Wolfe Tone)was a protestant.

If they hated British people why do they destroy the centre of London at night in the business area of the city and give a warning when they could do it during they day in the shopping district without a warning?Simply to cause maximum damage and to force home the point to get British troops out of Ireland.Not to kill british civilians.

Again i must say im not anything to do with the group i just wanted to show the differences to people who wouldnt know.

after scrolling through the previous posts, which i didn't read, i have come to this conclusion...

Bin Laden (hereafter referred to as "the Scumbag", organized and facilitated the deaths of innocent people of origins lying in 62 different 'countries'...62! including the UK...

how would the UK justify the very presence of the Scumbag on their soil is beyond me, as with any of the other countries' nationals that were unwittingly disposed of for the sake of the Scumbag's will.

Mary, Queen of Scots, comes to mind...give the same justice to the Scumbag

With a well funded CIA that our president has given a license to kill, i don't think the UK not giving him up would be a problem, any sane person would turn their backs for a moment That would be much more honorable, for us than the humilation that the court system here could bring.
Personally id like to see a press conferance called on his capture, let him step foward to make a statement and just shoot him point blank in the side of the head. pictures, posters what a boost to the economy.

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Originally posted by intruder

so if at all UK arrests osama then also according to me it will hand
him over to US immediately...and that will be end of global terrorism...

intruder.... :borg:

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I beg to differ. The arrest of one man WILL NOT be the end of global terrorism. I think it will inspire others..

The US has to be extremely careful not to make a martyr out of Osama Bin Laden or more Islamic extremists will follow and take his place.


Speaking of Islam I found it a little strange how the powers that be keep telling the media that "this is not a war on Islam but a war on terrorist groups"...If this is the case than why isn't carpet bombing taking place over Belfast or some of these milita groups within the US?

Anyway, it's food for thought....I'd just like to point out that I in no way am a supporter of any form of terrorism..........

In reply to siouxchief:

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If they hated British people why do they destroy the centre of London at night in the business area of the city and give a warning when they could do it during they day in the shopping district without a warning?Simply to cause maximum damage and to force home the point to get British troops out of Ireland.Not to kill british civilians.
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Unfortunately, that is exactly what the real IRA attempted to do in the UK last week. The real IRA planted a car bomb in the center of Birmimgham (next to the railway station and a large shopping district), and did not give any meaningful message as to where it was located. The only reason it failed to kill significant numbers of innocent civilians was because only the detanator exploded without setting off the main explosive charge.

On the more general point about extraditing Bin Laden from the UK to the US, this is actually illegal under UK/European law, because the US has the death penalty.
So that would put the UK government in rather a difficult position.

edited by IchNiSan.....

Sioux,

Thanks for the reply.

Answer 1: Over here means Ireland

a local understanding.

Answer 2: Vast ,Vast majority of the IRA's money comes from America i.e. Boston ,New York

Is that not Support?


Extra Fact: IRA are not drug dealers and are known to try and remove dealers from their neighbourhoods.

Both Factions of terrorists use extortion and racketeering to get local money and control.
This isnt Extra Fact, its just their protection of their own interests.

Remember Bloody Sunday? Just for those who dont.British "soldiers" shot dead 14 unarmed people at a civil rights march in Derry.God sounds like terrorism?

Nope it doesnt sound like terrorism. The legal arguments of their actions are for another place, but they were there at the request of the Governing bodies and authorities.

http://www.bloodysundaytrust.org/

try this one: http://www.cain.ulst.ac.uk/index


Also .Rubber and plastic bullets have been used as a means of intimidating and deterring demonstrations in North of Ireland. Since 1973, more than 54,000 of these lethal projectiles have been fired at the civilian population. Seventeen people, eight of them young children, have been killed, most in circumstances which amount to murder. Hundreds have been seriously injured. Injuries include serious mental and physical disablement.

Sounds a bit dodgy too?

Sounds very dodgy, would be nice to find the stats on the amount of bricks, bottles and petrol bombs thrown by all rioters during this period.

For general information:
1968 - 1998 people killed due to Northern ireland 'Troubles'
Security Services - 1111
Civilian - 1838
Irish Security - 10
protestant paramilitaries - 133
Republican Paramilitaries - 388


I think you are missing my point E-1 which is fair enough cos it is easy to get pissed off when someone is targeting your country and u probably couldnt give a crap about N. Ireland.As a recent poll suggests about 90% of people in england would hand N.ireland back instantly.My point was to point out the fact that Al Qaeda are insane in the fact that they think they are doing the things they do for god.Its a religious thing.They dont care about civilian deaths and have no main "cause".

Could you not argue that a belief in God is a Cause? i would certainly class the acts of cetain groups of people, whether it is Spitting, Hurling abuse or throwing rocks at young children going to school, the bombing of Harrods department store or a suicide bomb attack, as all the work of Lunatics and deranged fanatics.

If you analyse the IRA for a moment.Against popular belief the IRA dont hate british people or protestant people.The founder of Irish Republicanism (Wolfe Tone)was a protestant.

I have no religeous beliefs myself, and have always believed that the problems involved in Ireland is because of the dismembered state of the country.

If they hated British people why do they destroy the centre of London at night in the business area of the city and give a warning when they could do it during they day in the shopping district without a warning?Simply to cause maximum damage and to force home the point to get British troops out of Ireland.Not to kill british civilians.

Does a Bicyle filled with Explosives and detonated in the pedestrian shopping area of a seaside town in summer in the afternoon not count then? as this type of weapon is purely designed to cause injuries, kind of hard to argue the 'cleanliness' of any weapon.

Again i must say im not anything to do with the group i just wanted to show the differences to people who wouldnt know.

As i said before. It does not matter Who gives What support to Which Terrorist. It is Wrong.

I think it's really a moot point, because, as with the other fanatics in his organization, he would probably let himself be killed before capture.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by E-1

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Answer 2: Vast ,Vast majority of the IRA's money comes from America i.e. Boston ,New York

Is that not Support?

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Yeah true but they do have other ways of funding themselves and its far from pretty wouldnt you agree?

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Extra Fact: IRA are not drug dealers and are known to try and remove dealers from their neighbourhoods.

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The INLA are renowned for keeping drugs out of estates in Dublin suburbs and were I live, and have a small vigilante presence in my area.
However I wouldnt be surprised if the IRA had drug dealing connections, admit it.
A lot of smuggled goods such as counterfeit goods that are found in Ireland are linked to both Loyalist and Republican groups.

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Both Factions of terrorists use extortion and racketeering to get local money and control.

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Very true.

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This isnt Extra Fact, its just their protection of their own interests.

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Not sure what youre hinting at here.

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Remember Bloody Sunday? Just for those who dont.British "soldiers" shot dead 14 unarmed people at a civil rights march in Derry.God sounds like terrorism?

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Need I say more?


One more thing Ireland gained it's independance from the people of working class England, the IRA could not have beating the British or gain independance for the South without their opinion.

More importantly I hate all this, I hate the fact that I live in a country where Terrorist groups are not that hard to find and so many were mindlessly killed.

I far from hate the English, my best friends a Protestant but neither of us are religious but he has been abused over it before by mindless bigots.

Anyway I doubt we will every have a united Ireland and I mean no offense by anything I have posted here.

I am not affialated with any group or type of people I am my own man I hope. I like all people once they are not bigots, rascist or downright ignorant.

Lets forget the troubles and not discuss this type of thing here, there is a time and a place for this and its in the parliaments.

The British left us one thing and thats democracy. We are very different people but alike in more ways than we care to admit.

Hopefully perhaps not in the next generation but the following the troubles will be forgotton and conversations like this will be confined to the history books.

Sorry if anyone is offended but I cannot stress how much I dont look at people by race, culture, country, colour, intelligence or sex. It just dosent matter to me as long as you are willing to understand.

I could go on about this all day but Ive Euros to make!

Interested in the opinions.When i mentioned that they were funded from the USA i was doing so to illustrate that it wasnt "drug money".Regarding the Real IRA from darkes.**** them.Shower of c***s.

Anyway i think maybe we should just agree to disagree.Dont want to start arguing about my bombing was worse than yours and more people died or that hunger strike is worse than such and such a thing.That would be silly and i know no-one wants to.

No offence intended to anybody for all posts .I love England and one of my favourite cities in the world is London.Kicks ass + u get a great response being Irish over there :-)

Now security ......

Well..... If this happens, just take him for a walk so one of our CIA assasins can bust a cap in that ass with a high powered sniper rifle while he is enjoying the morning air in the park.

My Grandmother lost her mother and her aunt (plus both eardrums) to one of Hitlers bombs so as much as I would like to anything to get him I ...and God hate to say this ..NO I would go by the law...:chuck: I'll do it but I don't like it....