Java versus .NET

A survey of IT professionals showed that most will use java to make web applications. Here is a quote from the article.

"More than two-thirds of the respondents (69.5 percent), at the time of writing, plan to deliver some applications by Web services by the end of 2002, with a large majority of those (nearly half the total sample) planning to use Java. Only 21.5 percent plan to use Microsoft .Net, less than the figure (23.5 percent) planning to use neither. "

I hope that this is an indication that the single platform .NET will not overtake java. For more info see:

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/ne...kpt=zdnnp1tp02

In mickeysoft's defence: Java has been around much longer than .NET or c# - Java has been proven more or less usefull, while the .NET philosophy still stands in it's infant shoes. I don't think comparing the two right now is very usefull - people tend to stick to what they know, and in this particular case, the people and/or companies that just invested a serious amount of time and money in Java won't turn to c# that soon.

IMHO, c# came to late to seriously compete with Java (a lot of money was already spent on Java) while it came to soon to act as a succesor...

If C# or .Net were an improvement in the same fashion that Java 2 was to Java, with things that could help everyone get the job done, regardless of OS, then it might be different. It's not though. It's a proprietary "use our stuff or else it won't work" line and fortunately, not that many are buying it. Add in the fact that nothing out of MS' gates is Open Source to any level and that's another 'security through obscurity' feed. I, for one, am tired of listening to MS' crap about how secure their stuff is, how any product is the "end all be all", and overall just how shoddy their products are. I'd be ashamed for life if I were a "programmer" for MS with my name on code just because 98% of it is bloatware, bad code, etc etc...geez, I'm gonna stop here.

.NET is not gonna win this battle, many devel;opers will pick Java simply because of the better security.

a lot of java's security hinders scalability. Right now on a project i am working on, I am battling with java's protection of serialized objects

That's a good point, but scalability on what? MS oriented systems, no doubt. And how're you going to do troubleshooting except on MS oriented systems? Good points, but MS is very close-minded on anything outside it's own domain.

just testing somthing
plus adding this
java makes fast machines slow so theirs sumfing in MS defence

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Originally posted by RiOtEr
just testing somthing
plus adding this
java makes fast machines slow so theirs sumfing in MS defence

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Java seems to run slower because of the java virtual machine..as soon as java optimized chips are produced you will see it FLY!

This is microsoft justifying thier lack of support for java in XP
read it ..it is most amusing.


News and Information
An Open Letter Regarding Windows XP and Java Support



Sun Microsystems has invested a great deal of their marketing dollars and lobbying efforts in attacking our yet-to-be released Windows XP operating system, claiming that Microsoft has hurt Sun, the Java language and PC industry customers at large by not including the Microsoft virtual machine in Windows XP.

We feel it is important to outline for our customers the facts on this matter.

Sun Microsystems has taken every step possible to prevent Microsoft from shipping our award winning Java virtual machine. In fact, Sun resorted to litigation to stop Microsoft from shipping a high performance Java virtual machine that took optimal advantage of Windows. The settlement agreement provides for a termination of Microsoft's existing license with Sun and phase-out of the Microsoft VM, so Sun's professed surprise is mere spin. It should be noted that, since the settlement, a Federal Appeals Court has upheld Microsoft's development of a high-performance, well-integrated virtual machine for Windows as pro-competitive.

When Microsoft and Sun settled their litigation earlier this year, Sun was quick to pronounce the settlement a great victory. Sun's CEO said, "It's pretty simple: This is a victory for our licensees and consumers. The community wants one Java technology: one brand, one process and one great platform. We've accomplished that, and this agreement further protects the authenticity and value of Sun's Java technology."1 Sun got what they said they wanted: the termination of the existing Java license with Microsoft, and an agreement that Microsoft would phase out its Java virtual machine.

Sun now professes surprise and unhappiness, and is complaining publicly. But as industry analysts such as Bob Sutherland of Technology Business Research point out: "Sun can't have it both ways. They don't want Microsoft to have monopolistic control, but at the same time they want them to control their Java. No matter what Microsoft does, Sun is going to try to demonize them."2

Perhaps most disturbing, Sun is being disingenuous about the impact on customers. Microsoft has taken several steps to make its Java implementation available to Windows XP customers while adhering to the settlement agreement and protecting Windows customers from any future litigation by Sun. While the Microsoft virtual machine is not on the Windows XP CD, it is still an integrated part of the product. Customers who upgrade to Windows XP from recent prior versions of Windows can easily and automatically take advantage of their existing Java virtual machine. Customers with new machines or who perform a clean installation of Windows XP will automatically be offered the choice to perform a one-time download of the virtual machine the first time they browse a Web page containing a Java applet. This download is then available for any subsequent applet a customer may encounter. Finally, Microsoft has made its virtual machine available to any PC manufacturer to ship with new Windows XP systems, to save customers even this one-time download.

At Microsoft we are proud of the Java virtual machine we created, and the value our customers see in it. It has a long history of high quality and superior performance. It is also the only Java virtual machine that offers an integrated applet browsing experience with Internet Explorer. And it offered customers a choice - just as Windows XP will enable customers to choose and run other third-party virtual machines.

Sun works hard to create an image of itself as a leader in openness and choice with Java. The notion that Java is "open" is simply incorrect - Sun's actions ensure this, as again clearly demonstrated when it submitted Java to an industry standards body and then reneged on the submission, not just once but twice. Contrast these actions with Microsoft, where we have submitted the underlying specifications for Microsoft .NET to ECMA and are following through on our commitment.

Sun's idea of choice is that you can have any language you want, as long as it is Sun's version of Java under Sun's control. By contrast, Microsoft .NET supports over 20 languages from Microsoft and third parties, and Java will also be supported as a full-fledged language for the .NET platform. We believe that is a better definition of choice.

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Originally posted by larryjs
This is microsoft justifying thier lack of support for java in XP
read it ..it is most amusing.

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This is one of the more amusing letters Ive seen from Microsoft. First of all Sun did not want Microsoft to ship their version of the virtual machine, because unlike the sun version, it was compatible only with Microsoft products, and this was against the whole idea of java. Sun's real surprise was probably when they found microsoft was refusing to ship XP with any java VM.

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t is also the only Java virtual machine that offers an integrated applet browsing experience with Internet Explorer.

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This is exactly what Sun didnt want.

See how those *******s think? M$ is up to thier old tricks...as always.

Hi there.

I've programmed extensively in both Java and C# - the initial thing to note is that they are *very* similar. Not only are the languages extremely similar, the .NET platform APIs and the Java platform APIs aren't that different either.

.NET is supposedly language independent. Microsoft tout this as a good thing, and there are reasons for it. MS reckon it's a good idea to develop a project using several different languages. I think it's a bad idea, and you should stick to one. >1 language just causes confusion and means you need programmers experienced in both.

Language wise, although C# and Java are similar, the important things to note are:

C# is a "bigger" language than Java, with more syntax, more constructs and more features. This has its pros and cons. Sun didn't just "forget" to put these features in, they deliberately left them out to make Java a cleaner, more minimalistic language.

Some of these features will undoubtably aid novice programmers, whilst others may just confuse them - So it's swings and roundabouts.

Needless to say, C# isn't quite as cluttered with features as C++ :)

As far as the platform and libraries are concerned, I don't really know how to compare them. The .NET library appears much bigger than the Java1.2 library, and probably bigger than the Java1.4 library, with a very large number of packages for all sorts of things. Of course all of these things are available in Java, but many of them require additional libraries.

Microsoft's library probably has the advantage of learning from the errors of the java library, and being able to start with a clean slate (look at how many "deprecated" APIs there are in Java1.2)

I can't comment objectively on performance, my gut feeling is that C# programs running on .NET on MS Windows will probably run a bit faster than Java progs on the same box, but it's difficult, especially as there is >1 implementation of Java to compare against.

Also, MS Beta licence for .NET specifically prohibits publication of performance data.

anyway that's my tuppence worth

If you regularly program in Java and C#, it gets really annoying, becuase the languages are so similar it's easy to make mistakes and end up having code that should work in one in the other. Sometimes I forget which way around they are:

C# / Java
string / String
StringBuilder / StringBuffer
Hashtable / HashTable
System.IO / java.io
SqlException / SQLException
.ToString() / .toString()

which are probably right !

(yes C# generally uses more capital letters)