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I got into a discussion at college yesterday about hacking. I was told by someone that I consider a reliable source that "hacking programs" such as LC3 & H&C2k are illegal to have in ur posession. . . Is this true? or is he just blowing smoke? If it is, I would like to find out what bill or whatever states this. Anyone help me?
Interesting... I always thought there was nothing wrong in having software, only using some software in a malicious way was punishable. Think about it - who would deside which software was illegal, and what would be the criteria for such a descission?
If you're talking copyright, you're telling a completely different story, of course, but that's besides the point here.
I suppose it depends on where you are. In my state (TN) it's not illegal to have them. Only to deploy or use them under the Tennessee Computer Crimes Act. Which has been repealed. They did this after the federal law was passed on the anti-terrorism. Just my opinion, one would think it has to do with intent. After all, is Linux not a good "hacking" tool? You can use it normally or for evil. So I would think it would be based on intent or use.
Lets get some input on this one.
A good leagal resource is here: http://www.michie.com/
Just go to the drop down under Legal Resources and it has a few states laws, such as TN availible to browse.
I agree with Guus, having a specific piece of software is not illegal. The problem only starts if you decide to apply it with malicious purpose. Like in the US owning a gun or rifle is fine, no problem, to use the gun to blow someones head off is another matter.
:)
There was in the eurounion parliament last year a law being considered that would make it illegal to have in your possession any "hacking, cracking or computer entry programs". I hope it didn't pass but haven't heard more.
thanks for the info gold_eagle
I don't think the EU would be able to pass a law like that too fast.. Becouse most "hacking and Cracking" tools are used legitimately by big company's wanting to test their security..
and we all know the EU (just like the USA) is owned by the big companies..
well.. ever since the Sept 11 attack.. the US govt has been on 24/7 paranoia status..
hacking programs or ermm "scripts" would be considered as a dangerous weapon due to the damage it can cause.. and they are intended to do malicious and possible sinister act..
Yeah what is most worrisome is that they will use the cover of all this do put in place all kinds of laws to take away more than the positive parts of the new laws. Protection for society - absolutely, however it is quite a balancing act to not get carried away with it and go hogwild into big brother stuff.
I would hazard a guess and say that if they decided to make Linux a 'hacker's choice' OS that can be easily used to cause harm/damage to servers/sites/etc, they'd have more of a problem because then Windows, MacOS, and others would have to be put in the same category as there are tools for them as well to do "malicious" intent.
One problem I see though is the people making these laws are dumb as bricks (90+% of the time) and have no idea other than what someone tells them and that view is generally biased or slanted towards a specific goal. Media doesn't help in this case either, as I recall a case where a pastor in some church in Augusta Georgia had his name on the front page because of some scandal and when they went into his computer to find records, they found "literal thousands of pornographic content" which can very well translate out to...browser cache. Empty your cache, go to a porn site, go through a page or so, then go look at your cache. There'll be plenty of "pornographic content" pictures because of how they display them, etc.
And because it's the media saying so, they must be right, and this guy got slammed hard, thrown out of the church, etc...and was found not-guilty later for the porno stuff because it was his secretary's computer through proof of ownership, etc... Something the media "forgot" to mention.
Im in class talking to the same guy. . . . . He said that it was an FCC rule that stated this. Im looking on the FCC website but have yet to find such a law. He said it was like owning drug parifinalia. . . it was legal to own, but if ur caught with it they automatically assume that u have been using it and arrest you. I dont know. . . I've yet to find it.
~*~*double posted. . . . sorry*~*~
the FCC doesent have any regulations on that, its not there jurisdiction.
LC3 is illegal when you have a password hash on your system that you don't own. If you only have LC3 installed: it is a legal "network auditing tool".
So if you really want to do bad things: never store password hashes on your HDD. ;)
hey dontcha know...
"LC3 is the latest version of the award-winning password auditing and recovery application, L0phtCrack. It provides two critical capabilities to Windows® network administrators:
LC3 helps administrators secure Windows-authenticated networks through comprehensive auditing of Windows NT and Windows 2000 user account passwords.
LC3 recovers Windows user account passwords to streamline migration of users to another authentication system or to access accounts whose passwords are lost."
www.l0pht.com
and if ya didn't know LC3 is corporate and big corporate at that...the original LC writer pieter zatko joined the board of @stake couple of years ago...and took his code with him..and "repositioned" it from hacker tool to auditing tool...course it's both...but i can stab you in the eye with my dinner fork...but you can't make forks illegal just cause i'm a bad guy... ;)
so is LC3 illegal?...nope...you can buy it for 249 bucks...
btw...LC3 is also recommended by sans.org as an auditing tool...to defend against attacks using LC3...funny
Go read up on US Code 2512. They are illegal to process and use. It all depends upon the US Attorney General's Office if you get locked up or not.
Basically, if some federal prosecutor who has a dick up his/her ass and wants to put you behind bars, he/she will have the power to do so. Or if somehow, you managed to piss off one of these people, I would feel sorry for you to get locked up for possessing a hacking tool.
I have nothing against prosecutors in general, but I do think it is a flawed law that is on the books. And according, if the government wants to charge you with it, they can. There is nothing illegal about selective enforcement of the laws.
Becasue according to US Code 2512, Sub7, BO2K is illegal to possess and use.
My two cents.
Thanks Sparky. I kind of figured that. My home state (TN) is the same way. Ie...We have no self defence laws in this state nor justified homicide or extinuating circumstances. They leave it to the DA to persue it or not based upon intent and ability to procecute. Now they have repealed the Computer Crimes Act in the state and mandated it to federal guidelines. I don't like this because it is to broad. Say for example I was just goofing around the local colleges FTP site and got /root. Well under this new law I could be classified as a terrorist. That gives them way to much power IMO.Quote:
Originally posted by sparky3223
Go read up on US Code 2512. They are illegal to process and use. It all depends upon the US Attorney General's Office if you get locked up or not.
Anyway, Thanks for the info and USC code. :D
Sparkys right. It is all in the "eye of the beholder" Especially in this day and age. With all the antiterrorism going around, youwould probably get in trouble for it. Especially if you didn't have it licensed. I am sure that if someone wanted to prosocute you for it, they could, even without 2512, because they would say that you were carry munitions that could be used in an act of terrorism against the united states. Now that hacking is terrorism. Then again, they could probably find a way to lock you up for using Linux.....
Anyway, when it comes to the feds, its always guilty until proven innocent. So how are you going to prove that you didn't use those programs in any illegal way. Unless your employer paid for the program, and you can prove it, you are pretty much out of luck. At least that is how I see it.