Is Religion For Losers?

Here's a link to where this came from: www.centenarylex.org/2cents/JesusFreaks.html




Jesus Freaks
Today is March 16, 2001, and Ted Turner is in the news again, and again because of his inappropriate comments. According to television news agencies Turner insulted some of his own employees by referring to them as "Jesus freaks," apparently because they had ashes on their foreheads (following an Ash Wednesday service). One reporter said Turner also said, on this or another time, that religion is for "losers." Minnesota governor Jessie Venture said much the same thing last year, for which he apologized. I suppose Ted made some Christians see red but I thought, "Hey, this man knows his Christian theology (whether he actually knows it or not)." If not religion, certainly Christianity is for losers. Good for you, Ted!

I'm not ready to give Turner the "Theologian of the Year" award because I'm not sure at this point he appreciates the significance of his statement. But, as you know, out of the mouth of babes…. I think if Ted and St. Paul were having a coke and comparing notes, both would shake hands and smile on this issue, even if for different reasons. Religion is precisely for losers, that is, losers who know it and own up to it.

Do you remember that socially up-setting parable Jesus told about the two men in the temple? (Luke 18:9-14) Two men went into the temple to pray. One was a respected, honored, and self-righteous Pharisee. The other was a socially despised, disrespected, and shamed tax collector. The Pharisee bragged about his righteous acts to God and even compared himself to the tax collector. "This tax collector," he said with a sneer, "is a loser!" The crowd cheered (a little Mercerism here). The tax collector didn't respond. He just beat his chest, hung his head, and said, "God, please me merciful to me, for I am a loser." Jesus said, "Guess which man God heard with favor?" You're right, the loser. Actually the loser was the winner and the supposed winner was the real loser. That is the way things are in the kingdom of God. Those who admit their need of God and turn to God receive God's mercy. Those who think they are heads and shoulders above others, and that they have the right to judge others, well, all they get is the little they have. And when they stand before God ...

You see, we all need God and we all need one another. Maybe Ted would think the same way if he dug ditches for a living, rather than managing empires. I don't know. Its not mine to say. I do know that whether we accept the reality of God or not we are all losers. A great scientist has a great mind, but his wonderful mind is trapped in a dying body. Maybe it gives some people a fleeting sense of triumph to thumb their noses at God until their last breath. That, though, is a losing proposition. I am not concerned here with philanthropy, because we all know Ted Turner is a great philanthropist. I am thinking about the very reality that seems to cause Ted problems: God. I do not know if Ted is upset at organized religion or at the thought of being religious or because his sister died and that caused him great sorrow (as it should).

I apologize, Ted, if I have misread you. Maybe deep down you realize you too are a loser…in the gospel sense. Then you and, maybe me too, will receive mercy.



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© 2001 Jerry L. Mercer
Added 11Apr01

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I know this is old, but I wonder what you think about it?

IMO, no. Not necessarily for losers but this is a security site.
If I wanted to talk about God I would go to church. ;)

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Originally posted here by Remote_Access_






If I wanted to talk about God I would go to church. ;)

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How very true.

















The only thing that bugs me about religion is how they try and force it on you. It started way back in the days of missionaries. How many times have you been minding your own bussiness in the privacy of your own home and some Christian knocks on your door trying to convert you? I don't go knocking on their Church doors pushing my beliefs......























If people want to be religious and belive in God than that's fine. I have no problem at all with that. Just leave the rest of us alone! Otherwise, I'll come knocking on your Church doors pusshing my religion, alcoholism....























< KNOCK KNOCK...Excuse me sir, I'm from the local brewery and I was wondering if you're happy with your life? It just so happens that I have a six pack you could have for a small donation....What's that? This is an inconvenient time? How about I come back later? Can I just leave this brouchure on "The joys of alcohol and prostitution" with you?>

im gonna agree with Conf1rm3d_K1ll, religion is forced down everyones throught. I went to catholic school, and if i disagreed with anythign they said, no matter how small, i got detention.

sooo nice and loving the ****ing catholics are, forcing me to conform, forcing me to become something im not

Hello Gentlemen,
Thank you for your candid replies. I just want to address some of the concerns you noted.
First, I just want to note that it's my understanding that Cosmos is the place for religious and spiritual discussions, such as the one i was attempting to start. I wouldn't have dreamed of starting this thread in *nix security discussions (although learning Linux is testing my faith :D --just kidding).

Second, I have no intention of forcing my faith on you. Posting on a public forum is a bit different than knocking on people's doors. That's because I am not coming to your home. I posted a thread that you have the option of reading or not reading as you may wish. You may also choose to place me on your "Ignore" list and not view any of my posts. I'm sorry that you have had bad experiences with Christians who tried to control you or force you to hold opinions you disagree with. That is not my intention. Everyone has the right to choose what they believe. God allows us that choice. :) I too do not like when people try to strongarm me into holding opinions I don't like.

Third, church is a great place to have spiritual discussions and learn about God. I hope that one day you will avail yourself of the opportunity. But forums like this can be a good place too. You're free to say what you will. I'm free to say what I will. We can learn from one another without coercing one another.

Cosmos: A forum dealing with philosophy, ethics, morals, laws, logical & mathematical problems, etc.
If you want to talk about God, you can do it here ;)

My reply was not aimed at you as an individual, preacherman, but rather at religion in general. Sorry if I offended.



Neg- I'm quite aware of what the Cosmos forum is for (it's one of my favourites) but I just couldn't resist quoting R_A_'s post. The religon thing has been "done to death" in these forums. It's starting to get a little boring. I know I could just add preacherman to my ignore list as he stated but I actually enjoy reading his computer/security related threads.



Anyway, as preacherman said, we're all entitled to different opinions, and that's mine....

As a Christian, I have to agree with Conf1rm3d_K1ll. Religion shouldn't be forced upon anyone. My belief in God is based on my own choices, not because it was imposed on me. If I was forced to believe in God, I would probably reject the notion.

I think the correct way to spread Christianity is by representing a lifestyle. If you live a cheerful, kind, open-minded life because of what you believe, others might realize that there's a reason for it. If they don't, that's their choice. But if you act like a selfish, conceited, unhappy, bigoted person, and say you are a Christian, Jew, etc.... well, then you're giving religion a bad name, just like many of its leader's has done.

Hmmm,
My opinion would have to be Yes. Now listen up for a second why. I would say religion is for losers only because it is the easy way out of things. When something is unexplainable people just turn to their "god" to make it easier for them to understand. If we imagine 4,000 years ago, we ask someone who decides who lives and dies, and they would most likely turn to some Sun god or one of the sort, 1,000 years ago we ask someone who decides what is a child is going to grow up to be like and they again say some god. Now imagine the same two questions today, who lives and dies is decided by doctors, if someone is shot, a doctor can save them, even if they were wounded in the head sometimes, and the latter question, what their children will be like, this will be dicided by geneticists, when they start manipulating the human genome they will decide who grows a sixth finger, who has cancer, who lives, who dies. Now, let us push into the future roughly a thousand years. Possibly by then, they will have figured out a scientific reason to how a universe can grow out of something seemingly empty, and they have also figured out some other way that single celled organisms will instinctively combine to form multicellular organisms and further on, humans. Now when we have all of this science and proven facts, why will people then turn to "god". To conclude, I say losers turn to god from lazyness, it is an easy way to explain the unexplainable, and more often than not, science will soon explain that unexplainable.

I've never been a religious person, simply because I am undecided on which deity to choose. I am very openminded about religion and I take a special fascination in Buddhism because of the karma and dharma. I believe pretty much what anyone with religion does, minus the presence of a 'great holy one'. I don't like it when people push religion, or push anything for that matter.

But religion for losers? Not at all. I think that everyone needs something to believe in, maybe some people find solidarity in themselves, while others look for a higher, more powerful force to rely on. Maybe there's strength in believing in something greater than yourself. *shrugs* Hell, some people even believe in their psychic advisor....

Whatever turns you on, as I say.... *LOL*

Well, i think that there is a force that has been seperated into the religions, because of this many religions and their "Gods" make miracles. Especailly in Greece in the Easter and in the Christmas almost in every church they are happening.

You know what? Ted Turner is an idiot. Let's just leave it at that.

agreed

*LOL* True.

Ted is quite a character. A rich one.

Sorry, but who is Ted Turner?

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The3ntropy:

TheI say losers turn to god from lazyness, it is an easy way to explain the unexplainable, and more often than not, science will soon explain that unexplainable.

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OK. So I'm a loser? And I'm lazy? No offense or anything, but that's bullshit. Take me for example, if I was a lazy as you say, I wouldn't be replying to ur post.

Once a fact is established in science, it's not questioned. Science is there to end explanations and answer questions. But you can always question God cause he can't be proven. Following a path that may or may not be real is a lot harder than following facts. You're just following something that some guy, you probably don't even know who, discovered. How is that hard??

Finally, people do turn to God for certain explanations, like what will happen to us when we die? Science tells you that you'll just rot away, and most people don't want to accept it. And, following God does not mean you use him as an explanation for everything. I accept evolution, rather than the creation of man in seven days.

Now maybe some people just want an excuse for their laziness, but they don't represent religion. There's no way on earth that following God is the easy way out.

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Originally posted here by Alcatraz


Once a fact is established in science, it's not questioned. Science is there to end explanations and answer questions.

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I beg to differ. Even the Chucrh has a hard time facing up to scientific evidence...

[Galileo was labeled a heretic and sentenced to life imprisonment and his work was burned when he proposed the theory that the earth traveled through space... All through he nineteenth century, the Church attacked Darwin's theory of evolution.

In 1992, 350 years after his death, a papal commission admitted the Vatican's error in opposing Galileo. In 1996, 114 after his death, the Vatican once again admitted it was wrong in opposing Charles Darwin.]

http://specter6.50megs.com/Archives/0402.htm#04/24

So maybe it takes a centruy or so, but eventually scientific evidence is accepted, but definitely not at first. Anybody remember what the Dark Ages were about and why?

The dark ages were a time when the church (roman catholic i think) basically opressed all scientific studies thus hindering advancment. They would label anyone with a scientific mind that questions the RCC a heretic and kill them, actually they would torture them first, and if they admitted to being a heretic then they would let you live in a dungeon until you died. I don't agree with this use of the church, but I am very religious.


I have jesus in my heart. :)

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God is in the TV

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- Marilyn Manson

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I beg to differ. Even the Chucrh has a hard time facing up to scientific evidence...

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Yes thats true, because science challenges the power of the church. The church needs to people to be ignorant so that it could control their lives. But religion is different from the church. Some individuals just use it to get power.

If only the two, religion and science, could work hand in hand, then this would be a much better place.

{Please do not take any of this personally, this is all for the debate}
>>Alcatraz
Hmm, when you are saying religion is not easy, please elaborate on that. Science is not following what others say at all either. Science is constantly questioning everything. Even Einstien's theories are questioned today. And a lot of science is still being built upon, IE quantom theory is currently under heavy debate with how several issues cannot be resolved when referring to it. But again, in science if something is not known, steps are taken, facts are gathered, hypotheses are made, then from hard FACTS conclusions are drawn. Following the same road through religion, a story is read {from 2,000+ years ago} that tells you what is fact and tells you what happens.
IMO, it is clear which path would be the lazy man's way.

{Please Reply alcatraz, {and anyone else} this is beginning to be a very good conversation.}

I don't think that having faith necessarily means you just accept things blindly and that you never strive for answers. But there does come a point when all of our answers come up short. Our minds are finite (even though God created) and our intellects are flawed. Following Christ does not mean you blindly accept what other people tell you (even if that person is a preacher or priest). There are plenty of Christians I disagree with. Following Christ does not mean giving up science. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Also, science and scientists are not infallible. Can't we go back in history and see where scientists have made mistakes? Aren't some of the theories of yesteryear now discredited? I feel we must guard against the idea that we have perfect knowledge and that science is infallible. The3ntropy, what you said about the investigation process in science might also have some signifigance for faith. Many people do not come to faith in Christ in an instant. For some, it is a long process of searching and questioning. They read the Bible, they pray, and in the end they come to a decision to follow Christ. Faith can also become an investigative process.

PS: ignorant people are not an asset to the Church. They are a hindrance.

I'm not saying that science and scientists are flawless... But it has been my experience that organized religion leads to a large amount of hipocracy. And tends to force people to accept what is written as truth or "Gospel" without question. If a piece of literature were composed today that claimed a human male died at the ripe old age of 600, wouldn't it be attacked and ridiculed mercilessly?

sarin mage:
noone forces you to do anything in religion. when ur old enouph to be confirmed they dont force you to be. when your confirmed u take responsibilty in ur religion, and your probably over exadurating with getting detension because u woudnt get detension for disagreeing with whatever they said, so dont say the loving fukin catholics , its not their fault they use u as their bitch

the3ntropy.. You seem to be sitting on the topic that we are just following something that was written in a book. Well, in science you are doing the same exact thing. Have you ever been to the moon to test the theory that in a vacuum all things drop at the same rate? Obviously not, you are just taking what someone else experimented with and accepting it in "blind faith." Have you ever decomposed water and tested the electron structure to be sure that it is made up of 2 Hydrogens and 1 Oxygen? Probably not, you simply look at the periodic table of elements and look up in some book what someone else reasearched, and accept that as fact. Is believeing the bible so different?

Religions are not all alike. They are not necessarily represented by their leaders. They are not even always represented by their followers. They are represented mostly by simple sets of principles. Science has these principles too. The elements are an example of them. It is generally not questioned that humans are carbon-based, just as Christians do not generally question the fact that Jesus is the Messiah.

The Bible is obviously not perfect, as it was written by men, but it is not a fault that it was written 2,000 years ago. Some scientific writings may still be accepted 2,000 years from now. And the Bible is not the sole source of Christian belief. It's really just a history book, and most people don't spend their lives living in the past. Christian belief can basically be summed up as 'Believe in Jesus and you will be saved.'

"Once a fact is established in science, it is not questioned."
Wonder who said that? Actually, facts are continuing to be questioned as in science, which is based on observation, can change if new observations are made. Let's not confuse truth with fact. Any top engineer, scientist etc challenges what is known from time to time to ensure the "facts" have not changed.

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Originally posted here by xmaddness
the3ntropy.. You seem to be sitting on the topic that we are just following something that was written in a book. Well, in science you are doing the same exact thing. Have you ever been to the moon to test the theory that in a vacuum all things drop at the same rate? Obviously not, you are just taking what someone else experimented with and accepting it in "blind faith." Have you ever decomposed water and tested the electron structure to be sure that it is made up of 2 Hydrogens and 1 Oxygen? Probably not, you simply look at the periodic table of elements and look up in some book what someone else reasearched, and accept that as fact. Is believeing the bible so different?

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Actually it is very different. There is no supporting material either physical or intellectual with religion. With science, you don't take what is given to you, you question it. Hence, Stephen W. Hawking, you know why he is so smart, he questions the basics that science leans on.

Here's a pretty good definition of faith. Faith is when you believe in something you know isn't true. -Mark Twain. Now carefully read that. Cause it doesn't say anything about being right or wrong, it just says that isn't true.

>>Xmaddness,
You are completely wrong there, sorry. I do not accept things I read. I do experiments of my own. Yes, I have dropped a feather and a lead ball in a vacuum tube before, and have seen to my amazement that they fall at the same rate of 9.8 m/s/s. And I have seen impressions from a SEM {scanning electron microscope} That have shown to me the raw fact that H2O is made of of 2 hydrogen atoms, and 1 oxygen atom. And also I have seen how they bond aswell. I never accept the blind fact, I always question until the proof is undoubtable. So, when you say I am being lazy, you are not only off the track, you have derailed, :P.

so someone has been to a lab it seems. In any case - what are you guys arguing about?

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so someone has been to a lab it seems. In any case - what are you guys arguing about?

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Supposedly, it's harder to believe in science then religion.

I guess it must be even harder to believe in science AND reliigion.

Simpsons Religous Quotes..

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Originally said by Homer
9. If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that

girls should stick to girls' sports, such as hot oil wrestling, foxy boxing,

and such and such. - Homer

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Originally said by Superintendent Chalmers
Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no

place in organized religion. -

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and finally............

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Another Homer Classic
Stealing! How could you? Haven't you learned anything from that guy

who gives those sermons at church? Captain what's-his-name?

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RELIGION IS FOR LOOSERS. - I agree

Yeah, i don't believe that. Everyone has to believe to something, someone, somebody.