Jose Padilla's civil rights

Okay, probably most of you have heard about Jose Padilla and his alleged plans to carry out a "dirty bomb" attack on the US. If you haven't, check pretty much any newspaper for details. Anyway, the U.S. government is holding him in a military prison while denying him the civil rights allotted to him by the US constitution. The constitution clearly states that the government may not take away any citizen's life, liberty, or property without due process of law-- it's in the fifth amendment. This is exactly what the Bush administration is doing right now. Padilla is a citizen of the United States, whether or not he is a terrorist. I understand that in this case, it probably saved thousands of lives to detain this man unlawfully, but if he is indeed guilty then what harm could it do to give him a trial or at least a hearing? Bush has declared him an "enemy combatant" and has used this to rationalize this decision.
The problem is that if Bush can do that to Padilla, he can do it to just about anyone. I am by no means a supporter of Padilla; I think he's probably getting what he deserves. But in the future, say some political activist is openly bashing the president and he doesn't like it. All he has to do is declare this individual an "enemy combatant" and he can hold this individual indefinitely without any sort of trial. This situation is almost Orwellian in nature. The constitution gives no provision for the use of this "enemy combatant" b.s. except to say that the president can do stuff like that if it's necessary. We shouldn't repeat the stupidity that we showed when we allowed the US government to put Japanese-Americans in internment camps in the second world war. This is actually a worse situation anyway- the President can do this to any individual on a mere whim.
Who knows who the next person- the next VICTIM- is going to be? We should put a stop to this. At least give the moron a trial before you give him the death penalty... Otherwise, we may find that in the future, the constitution is meaningless.

Well since the war on Terrorism, the government has been invading more of people's privacy and rights etc. offcourse they use the excuse "it's in the best interest of the nations safety etc etc."

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He opposed America's entrance into World War I and denounced the Espionage Act designed to silence all antiwar sentiment. In 1918, he received a 10-year prison sentence for his public opposition to the war. At his trial, Debs admitted he spoke the words the federal government considered traitorous and addressed the jury in his own defense. "I am doing what little I can to do away with the rule of the great body of people by a relatively small class and establish in this country industrial and social democracy." A guilty verdict sent Debs to the federal prison in Atlanta.

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http://www.ibiscom.com/vodebs.htm

:cool:

the other excuse that they are using is that he was committing treason and other "War crimes" when someone commits a war crime, they end up waving all rights. this is not always through legal process, but it happens.

One would assume an Enemy of the People of the United States of America would lack the Civil Rights of the people he hates.

If lawyers get a hold of him he'll go free. There’s no hard evidence against him and the witnesses that would have to be produced and the methods that they used would have to be displayed in public to convict him. This would hurt our intelligence efforts more than his conviction would help anything.

Now if lawyers set him free, this would put the government in a position where they could amend the law to prevent things like this from happening again. That would not be good.

Most Americans do not want him released and would support the people who would take away our rights and freedoms in the name of 911. Lets not forget that the majority seem to believe, at this time, giving up their rights and freedoms is in the interest of national security. Everyday people don’t have the time or the inclination to investigate things for themselves and get their information by osmosis, sitting in front of the TV or having a radio on in the car, which they’re really not paying attention too. This is the way of the 21st century ministry of truth.

Jose Padilla is not working for non violent political reform nor is he an innocent bystander as the Japanese-American were. The people who fought these injustices fought a valiant fight and helped to secure our freedoms. But banners for freedom and justice were not picked up for the cases that would have hurt this cause.

Were fighting a battle now to keep our rights and freedoms, which are being re-defined as we speak. In this case, discretion is the better part of valor.

Jose Padilla not only wants to kill us he’s part of a plot to destroy our way of life. Force this issue and he'll have won.

At this point, we don't know anything about Jose Padilla
but what the government says. In fact, one government agency,
a federal court, found no grounds to hold him.
Have we come to the place where we are ready to assume
his guilt without proof?

When someone can act so high-handedly that they can declare
someone to be an enemy of the people, and we consider
the accusation to be the proof, then who is safe?

Are we so patriotic that we don't care about the constitution?
Congress has not declared war, so there is no war, and
there are no "enemy combatants"

If Jose Padilla is a criminal, I say prove it in a court of law.
If we are at war, let's fight it on enemy soil, against
the enemy, and not start a civil war here at home.
:cool:

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Originally posted here by Tedob1
If lawyers get a hold of him he'll go free. There’s no hard evidence against him and the witnesses that would have to be produced and the methods that they used would have to be displayed in public to convict him. This would hurt our intelligence efforts more than his conviction would help anything.

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So there's no hard evidence against him. Now, I'm not a lawyer, but it does maybe kinda seem like maybe he should be released then</sarcasm>
Of course he should be released. There are no charges, there is no evidence, he should not be held. Calling him a prisoner of war is a massive abuse of the law and really says something about the american government.

Unfortunatly RcGreen, the war was brought to US soil. This is a war like no-other we have faced before. We are fighting people, malicia's, and religiouse groups. Not a country like traditional warfare. There is no set enemy. So I really think The USA should go gung ho with this. I mean heres my ****in policy. You may not like it.

Lets say a terrorist attacks, from Pakistan. Okay, we lose X number of Citizens, and representatives. We DEMAND that these Terrorist groups be brought to us by Deadline Y.
If they are not brought to us, then we go get em' Isreali style.

Its okay I desearve to "balanced"

Well he is a US citizen...and I remember Mr Asscroft, saying that tribunals would only be used against Non-citizens. Which would include "secret" evidence etc etc,and never have to be disclosed. And he was arrested in May for crying out loud, it's damage control. Everytime, someone gets curious, Mr Ridge goes on TV Asscroft from MOSCOW, and raises the "threat" level. Hogwash. They do not have a case.
I suggest anyone who's interested, read these.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...669963,00.html
http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?...&group=webcast
http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=99402
http://www.nwc.navy.mil/srd/Reports/Garmisch_Report.htm
http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?...&group=webcast

I read a newspaper article which said the only evidence against him was his browsing the internet for instructions to make bombs, or something to that effect. If he was conspiring to plant a bomb, then charge him with that offence and put him in jail. If this man was a political prisoner in the traditional sense, then there would be protests everywhere, etc. etc. But because he is a 'terrorist', it's all good. Absolute bullshit, and it seems as if the general US public is propogating this sentiment (e.g Dr Toker).

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If they are not brought to us, then we go get em' Isreali style.

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'Israeli style' is a 'style' that is hypocritical and nonsensical to the highest degree. Going into the territories has not stemmed the tide of bombers - it has had the exact same effect.
Israel may cry foul over terrorists, but the 'holy land' was forcibly taken away from the Palestinians - and they haven't forgotten the early days.

Deir Yassin Remembered

well i am in no way surprised about this...i mean back just after 9/11 a bill got signed that basically said "if the government decides you are a terrorist, you have no rights and can basically be shot in the street if it(the government) wishes"

what did they call it? something like "The really good anti-terrorist bill #145", so it passed without a problem and people cheared and praised all the politicians for what a great job they were doing...idiots.

umm... Dr. Toker> there have been us terrorists in other countries. how would you feel if one of these other countries invaded the U.S.? Not only invaded the U.S., but over through our government and tried to put into a place a style of government that they saw fit? besides, has it worked for israel yet? no, it is just making things worse.

second, allthough terrorism is wrong, it does not go unprovoked. the palestinian terrorist are attacking israel because israeli tanks are driving down the street in palestinian cities. The US was attacked by terrorists on 9/11 because our soldiers are stationed in the mideast and we are involved with conflicts that really have nothing to do with us other then the US mentality to be "global peacekeepers." this mentality is the cause for a good amount of hate towards the US from other countries. I am not just talking about the extremists in these countries either. in afghanistan, it is believed 70% of the population hated the US and did not want the US involved in it's political affairs. for every action there is a reaction. don't get me wrong, i feel that the acts of 9/11 were wrong and there needs to be a US governement reaction, but to what degree. the action of the terrorists was a reaction to US actions. the terrorists should be stopped, yes. but taking out entire coutries and overthrowing the government in said countries is not an answer. it will just cause a bigger reaction from the terrorists. the US needs to examine the way it's doing stuff, before we cause problems we don't want. because if we go to war with the wrong country (such as an "axis of evil"country like north korea or iran) we could spawn a world war. not only that, but we had a hell of a time in the korean war (which we lost) but this time, china will be in volved, and they will be against us... not an idea i like to think about

If you’re going to spout propaganda, at least get it right!

We didn't loose the war in Korea. That was Viet Nam.
We stopped the Chinese advance at the 39 parallel in Korea, notice i said Chinese and not No. Koreans. It was Chinese regulars fighting. No Korea is politically owned by the Chinese government.
North Korea is fueling unrest with military supplies on behalf of china.
Maybe you think we should appease them, like they tried with another country with world aspirations.

There was evidence of Padilla meeting with Al Qaeda members and discussing their "dirty bomb" plans. The point is that right now we are at war with terrorist organizations and anyone suspected of helping them will be accused of war crime. I think Padilla should have a trial but we cant allow american citizens living in Afganistan to plot against the US and then because of lawyers get away with it. These arent normal times and special measures have to be taken to prevent something like 9/11 from taking place again.

Well having been around since the civil rights movement, and born shortly after Kirea I see history repeating it's self. Lets look at the media spin on this the day a FBI wistle blower said we had info in 9/11 Bush and our goverment made some sort of we foiled another plot thing and the media ate it up. 9/11 hapened as a reaction to our foreign policy and attempting to place American values upon a culture we do not understand, the FBI the CIA both dropped the ball here and the media will not focus uoin that or foriegn policy it is Bush and his simpleton ways. Now days you want to take a ferry here random checks of cars, yes you can say no however if you say no the State patrol tells the captin who trhen refuses to let you board, what freedom is there in this? These people of 9/11 won in many ways I feel it is not they whom rob us of our rights and freedoms nope they let our goverment over react take away rights, impeed our everyday freedoms and continue to use the media to draw attention to the Battle against Terror and don't look at the resons why our own intellegent agencys failed. Point the finger come up with a spin catch phrase let the media sell it to the american people. Spoon fed, I have yet to see one damn objective analyst from the media there is no reporting any longer it's a damn rating game by the networks and WA DC. Yeah even I can be arrested for even writing what I feel now anytime our own goverment walks upon freedom of speach under the guise of fighting terror we loose we have lost and they won their cost what 8 few hundered people our cost and entire way of life taken by our own goverment. Flame or negs points go on. I speak my mind disagree that is your right enjoy it while you can cause each minute that passes you loose more of the right to speak out.