Seat Belt Laws

I was reading posts in a different forum and someone had mentioned something about seat belt laws. Now i have a pretty strong feeling towards them but i ws wondering what you guys think about them.

Personally I do use my seat belt, and i think that its stupid not to. HOWEVER i feel that the government has absolutly no right to make it a law to have to wear one. The way i see it them telling us that it is illegal to not be safe just should not be done. Thier whole reasoning is to save lifes, and im sure the extra revenue generated from the tickets has nothing to do with it. But if they were really interested in helping to protect people, then why is bungie jumping, parrachutteing, base jumping, those polar bear club people, and a ton of other activities not out lawed? or any of the other sports with extremely high risks.

So thats how i see the seat belt laws, what do you guys think?

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by JewishIntent
HOWEVER i feel that the government has absolutly no right to make it a law to have to wear one.

---

Come on! Don't you know it's the government's job to protect us from ourselves?? :p

In Australia it's the Law to wear a SeltBelt while in a Car.
I personally think it's a great law only because i've been in a few car accidents and if that seatbelt wasn't used then i wouldn't be here today.

I've also had friends die in car accidents when they weren't wearing one. Ever seen what someone looks like when they get thrown through the windshield and have slid down the road..
SeatBelts do save lives, fine you might get a small injury from them when involved in an accident, but wouldn't you prefure to get whiplash then possibley become stuck in a wheel chair, or even worse die...

cheers
front2back

It's the law here in Canada as well, and while I sympathise with both camps, I believe it's the Insurance Industry which compels the Gov't to ensure it is regulated.

No seat belt= no coverage, and they have slimed there way out of claims payments because the investigation of the accident scene determined that the occupants weren't wearing seat belts.

Also after awhile you don't really notice it, unless your waist size starts to extend the belt's length. :D

Quote:

---

Also after awhile you don't really notice it, unless your waist size starts to extend the belt's length.

---

lol

f2b: i think you may have missinterpreted what i said, i not only wear my seat belt but feel that anyone who gets hurt or dies from not wearing one deserves it. What my problem is with the govnt coming in and saying its a law, i know there is a bit of a difference but if they can come in and say that then whats to honestly stop a law outlawing rally raceing, or parrachutteing or ANY activity that the governemt deems dangerous? EVERYTHING is dangerous.

I one of those people that feels that all of this saftey concern in the world today is doing more harm than good. How are you going to learn not to play with fire until you burn yourself. Think of anytime you were little and did something stupid where you got hurt somewhat seriously. Did you learn your leason not to do it again? and do you honestly think the leason would have been driven home anywhere near as hard if a parent or someone simply told you not to do it because it was dangerous?

I think we really need to bring back the whole survival of the fittest idea, my favorite comedian once said, "It's simple, the kid that shoves the most marbles up his nose doesn't grow up to have a family of his own." - George Carlin

Hey Hey,

I've met people that have lived because they didn't wear a seatbelt and I know people that died while wearing a seatbelt..

Do I agree with the government telling me I have to and fining me if I don't... definately not... but then again... if I agreed with anything about the government I'd prolly give someone here a heart attack.

However, I feel it's the same as Attempted Suicide and Assisted Suicide laws... If you want to die, that should be your right and your choice... Those laws exist because of the Christian Influence on our legal systems... and as already mentioned... seatbelt laws exist because of Insurance Influence... What it comes down to is that the government really has no say, they're a bunch of pussy whipped little kids... and it's Big Business and the Church that have that pussy

Then again, for those of you that haven't already seen it. There's a commercial that's played here.. The guy's talking about how when he was younger He wanted to kill his brother because of how amazing he was at everything... and they get in an accident (brother and gf in front, guy in the back... guy not wearing a seatbelt)... he flies forward and hits his brother and then says "All those times I could have killed my brother... and that day I did."... It's a pretty grim reality that it sets up...

Peace,
HT

It's against the Constitution to MAKE you wear it. Here in Michigan it's around $200.00 or more if you get caught putting no one but yourself in danger.

So, for you people who actually believe it's for your own good, what happens when you get in a wreck that starts the car on fire and then it gets stuck? Would you be loving that thing as it glues your ass to an about to explode car?

Quote:

---

what happens when you get in a wreck that starts the car on fire and then it gets stuck? Would you be loving that thing as it glues your ass to an about to explode car?

---

Thats why in my car at least i have knives placed so that no matter where, or more importantly for my group of friends, how you sit you can reach one or more.

Quote:

---

Thats why in my car at least i have knives placed so that no matter where, or more importantly for my group of friends, how you sit you can reach one or more.

---

Then you get busted for Concealed Weapon.. :eek:

Quote:

---

what happens when you get in a wreck that starts the car on fire and then it gets stuck?

---

Would rather my ass get burnt then get thrown through a windshield again...
and have to get your jaw wired shut, and having to learn to walk all over again.. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by .:front2back:.
Then you get busted for Concealed Weapon.. :eek:

---

Or the knife breaks free in the accident and kills someone.... Storing weapons around a vehicle is just stupid... it's like thinking it's a good idea to keep a bucket of napalm next to the cutting torch.

Peace,
HT

Me personally, I'm tired of the government nanny, far too many people expect to be able to go through life never thinking once about anything, instead preferring to be told everything. Do I believe seatbelts help? Yep. Do I wear mine? Yep. Do I think the government should require it/enforce it? Nope. If someone wants to be a fool, that's there right.

To me its more all about the money. Here, they passed a law requiring seatbelt with a $1000 dollar fine, but the funny thing is they made it a secondary offense, meaning you couldn't pull someone over for not wearing one and you couldn't write a ticket at a roadblock for one (there had to be legitimate reason for pulling them over first, that had nothing to do with seatbelts). Anyway, for months the police ignored the Attorney General warning on the enforcement of the law because they were after those 1000 dollar tickets...pulling over god and everyone, setting up roadblocks, etc...all 'in the interest of public safety'. It was amazing how damn fast they cut that **** out when the local judge threw out all the tickets because they were issued improperly....

Make the money from tickets and other traffic violations go to charity or a general fund (outside of the police department) and see how fast the # of tickets issued plummets...

Quote:

---

Then you get busted for Concealed Weapon..

---

If i am in a position where i can get busted for that, the knives are the least of my problems.

Quote:

---

Or the knife breaks free in the accident and kills someone.... Storing weapons around a vehicle is just stupid... it's like thinking it's a good idea to keep a bucket of napalm next to the cutting torch.

---

O come on, how can you go and assume something like that, all of the "weapons", in quotes because my weapons are at home and the knives in my car i consider tools, are completly safe where they are and are all tucked away in nice sheaths to prevent that very thing. and trust me the sheaths will keep the knives safe, i have had an instance downtown chicago where i had to use a knife, but instead of drawing it i just beat the guy with it still sheathed. I won the fight and humiliated him 8-)

Bottom line...............Don't get in a freaking accident, the amount of people I see on a daily basis that shouldn't be allowed on the road, is scary, so I play it safe, I pay attention to whats in front of me and screw the idiots behind me.

I keep well back of the vehicle in front, I adjust my speed in rain and snow, I follow the rules (mostly), I shudder to think about the days when we would leave for vacation in the old Studebaker station wagon and be laying in the rear (sure it was great) of the car, but on reflection what if?

I have seen drunks take a car and flip end over end 5 times and get out and walk, if that same car had of been full of sober people who reflexivly tense up at the moment of impact, I bet not even a seatbelt would have saved them.

Seatbelts save lives and sometimes can inhibit the safety of the occupant, but I would bet that is the exception to the rule.....

Wow HTRegz I thought the religious aspect was a bit of a stretch until I read this stuff(shakes head in sadness)Christ Denial and the Seat Belt Law

Lol hahahahahahahaha just go ahead and admit to assault on a public forum. Are you nuts? You said you beat some guy with the cover for a knife.... I'm sure everyone though he was a **** head when you had to use a weapon to win a fight. Not sure about anyone here but I was always honored when someone used a weapon against me. I mean damn that's flattery. Like they knew they couldn't win.

Quote:

---

Lol hahahahahahahaha just go ahead and admit to assault on a public forum. Are you nuts?

---

Ok i understand how one would assume that first off, but it was self-defense and not assault which is one of the reasons it stayed sheathed.

Quote:

---

Not sure about anyone here but I was always honored when someone used a weapon against me. I mean damn that's flattery. Like they knew they couldn't win.

---

I would be too, except he was very foolishly, and a bit drunkenly, swinging a bar of some sort, which is the only reason i pulled out the knife in the first place.

btw gore: i noticed that you live in michigan, ever been to chicago?

Na, we have Detroit, Chicago would be sort of dissapointing when you live in Southeast Michigan / Murder / Crime capitol of the World. Besides it stays to warm there in the Winter.

Warm here in the winter??????? damn it must be cold up there for you to say that. not too sure geographically where you live but keep in mind that chicago gets all that nice cold ass air blowing into the city from over the lake.

Well, right now it's pretty warm out for how it usually is and that's because it's like 30 degrees. That's our high. But generally it is around 0. Sometimes less. I've seen -30 or so.

Bah... all you Americans talking about cold weather... you're as bad as these people here in Southern Ontario... The only Americans that have a right to complain about the weather are the Americans that live in the UP of MI... Perhaps Wisconsin and Minnesota... Beyond that you have no idea.... :P

Peace,
HT

hah well right now its 19F out and with wind-chill its only 8F.

Hey Hey,

Right now it's 14F here... I'm wearing a T-Shirt still... they call it cold... LIke I said... you have no more right to complain than they do (Southern Ontarians).... My hometown is 12F right now (actually a warm day for this time of year... historically it's about -4F there this time of year... getting colder as you go) and where I was born.. it's 3F... Those are the people with a right to call the temperature cold.. when it's that temperature all winter long... and hitting 0F is a warm day.... and it lasts 8 or 9 months out of the year.

Peace,
HT

Hi JewishIntent,

Seeing as this thread was inspired by my comments in another thread, where I used seat-belt laws as an example of common sense being forced upon people, I guess I should pipe-in my 2 cents...

seat-belt law was instituted as a way to protect people from dumb-a@@es...as virtually all common laws are. Smart people do not need to be told to look both ways before they cross a street...dumb-a@@es do...smart people do not need to be told not to take a pi@@ outside of a elementary school...dumb-a@@es do...smart people do not need to be told not to use a cat as a football to see how far you can punt it...dumb-a@@es do...

seat-belt law doesn't exist to protect you from your driving...it exists to protect you from the dumb-a@@es out there who can't drive...

is the municipality making money off it in fines....yes...is the government and insurance companies saving a bundle of money by reduced pay-outs...yes...
if the government could figure out a way to charge you to pee it would ( anyone remember public pay toilets...I do )...

but the bottom line is if you're in your car and you're the greatest driver there ever was...it only takes one dumb-a@@ to change your life and the lives of those in the car with you forever.

Eg ;)

P.S. And I agree with gore...pulling out a knife and all this talk about knives makes you look like a weenie...sounds like your braggin' but it comes across like a security blanket.

Quote:

---

Right now it's 14F here... I'm wearing a T-Shirt still

---

:eek:
[/emote] bows down [emote]
ok now THAT is something i couldn't do.

Egaladeist just a quick question, so your saying that the laws are there to make sure that awesome driver buckles up in case drunk guy hits him? if so isn't that awesome driver still falling under the catagory of a dumb-a@@ who needs to be told to look both ways b4 crossing a street?

o and I, being the youngin I am, have never even heard of public pay toilets. . please explain a bit, besides the obvious fact that they charged you to go.

Hi JewishIntent,

If there were no dumb-a@@es in the world...there would be no need for laws at all...;)...sure....accidents would still happen, but not because of blatant stupidity...

eg. no one with half a brain needs to told that it's wrong to kill your neighbor...so why make a law saying you can't murder someone...because some dumb-a@@ will...

so we make laws to inform those of what they can not do...and they do it anyways...because they're dumb-a@@es...

so....no, it's not a reflection on the people who are not dumb-a@@es...it's like having to tell a child not to touch a hot stove...some people need to be told what they can and cannot do because they're simply not smart enough to figure it out on their own.

the unfortunate side-effect to this is...some people only see the letter of the law and not the spirit...eg. a dumb-a@@ jaywalks and causes a car to come to a screehing halt endangering himself and the occupants in the car...whereas a smart person looks for traffic sees no cars and crosses without incident...both get fined if the cop inforces the letter of the law...in the spirit of the law the latter should never get fined...the law does not really apply to him.

In my day all public toilets had doors with dime coin slots to use them...which brought about this little saying...

Here I sit broken hearted
paid my dime and only farted
yesterday I took a chance
saved my dime
and sh@t my pants

Eg ;)

I don't care realy..

I don't drive.. on public roads..

Whether or not I wear them depends on who I'm riding with..
It's not as much the driving.. More the fact that some people are picky about it..

One friend is rather strict and will show the people not listening that he has ABS !

Another friend once said it was a trust issue .. do you trust my driving..

An uncle of mine doesn't wear them since he was in an accident and was saved by the fact that he rolled out of the car ;)

they don't call it "Defensive Driving" for nuthing, the people who train you on these courses will always tell you, that the other driver is the idiot and you have to try and anticipate their moves, i.e. if the driver in front of you looks like he's pushing 100, then ease up on the gas and watch his every frigging move.


If you the driver, want to make the conscious decision to take your life into your own hands by not wearing a seat belt, then have the decency to stay off of my road, cause if we end up meeting I don't want you coming through my windshield (deductibles being what they are) :D

Quote:

---

was saved by the fact that he rolled out of the car

---

good thing the car didn't decide to stop on top of him eh! :p

It's been fairly warm here too. Last week it was storming and 60 degrees and the next day it was 29.

Eg, while i am beginning to osee your point. . .

Quote:

---

no one with half a brain needs to told that it's wrong to kill your neighbor...so why make a law saying you can't murder someone...because some dumb-a@@ will...

---

this isn't a good example at all, that law is to prevent you from hurting someone else, seat belt laws prevent you fro hurting yourself, unless you happen to vault through the windshield and hit someone of course. But if that child who was told not to touch the hot **** does touch it, shouldn't the burn be a good enough lesson/punishment and not require an additional fine and ticket?

and damn that sucks with the pay bathrooms. I have only come accross something similar to that once in my life. Back when i was a boy scout my troop hiked the grand canyon rim-rim-rim, and the showers on the north rim were pay operated, well they were until one of our leaders got drunk and decided he could fix it to not need quarters anymore. which he did, except you could no longer turn it off, control the temp, or risk electrical shok from the damage he did.

i would just like to hijack my own thread here for a moment to express my gratitude for everyone that has added to this thread. It has been WAY too long since i have been able to have a somewhat completely intelligent conversasion/debate without the closeminded arguments and responses i tend to get. Ive said it before in a lot of my "i need help fixing my screw-up" threads


I F-IN LOVE AO

Hi JewishIntent,

Quote:

---

this isn't a good example at all, that law is to prevent you from hurting someone else, seat belt laws prevent you fro hurting yourself,

---

Actually, the law is to protect others as well as yourself...originally it was to protect children in a moving vehicle...not the driver...in fact every state has different laws concerning seat-belts ( unless that's changed )...and over the years it's been extended to include drivers and other passengers...if I remember correctly there was one State in the Eastern US that still doesn't have seat-belt laws...another one it was just for passengers...another one just for minors...etc...

Quote:

---

It has been WAY too long since i have been able to have a somewhat completely intelligent conversasion/debate without the closeminded arguments and responses i tend to get.

---

Thank-you! :D

Eg ;)

Hi,

I have stayed out of this because laws are different in different countries, however I will raise this point:

What are the insurance implications?

Over here, if you were not wearing your belt, that would be classed as "contributory negligence" and you would be lucky to get even 10% of your claim.

Just a thought?

:)

Hi nihil

Canada, like the states in one respect has different laws when it come to the provinces, this one is from Saskatchewan:

Quote:

---

What happens if you do not wear a seat belt? It is an offence not to buckle up. You could be fined if you fail to wear your seat belt or if you drive someone under 16 who is not properly fastened in. The fine is $125. You will also receive three demerit points for a seatbelt infraction. If this moves you into a negative safety rating or if you already have a negative safety rating you will have to pay a penalty of $25 for each negative point.

Not wearing a seat belt increases your chances of being injured in a collision. Statistics show that seat belts can decrease the chances of sustaining a serious injury in a traffic accident by as much as 50%. If you are injured in a collision while not wearing a seat belt you could be held partly responsible for your injuries, since you are required by law to wear a seat belt. Even if another person caused the collision and you decide to sue that person, you may not recover your damages in full. By neglecting to buckle up, you bear part of the responsibility for your own injuries if failure to wear a seatbelt has contributed to your injuries.

---

I am sure the others have similiar laws and or fines, our Insurance industry though is fairly convoluted as well when it comes to individual provinces, and I am sure that not only would it affect the claim, but also send premiums through the roof. :rolleyes:

To restate my views from elsewhere: Nah. No reason to insist on regulation. It's just keeping people from doing themselves in, and the vast majority of those who would be maimed or killed by 'drunk drivers! o noes!' or something of that sort would be those who put themselves into the situation anyway.

Personally, I kind of wonder why anyone in the IT field who's had to deal with supporting clueless lusers would advocate anything that could keep said clueless types alive to pester them any longer....*wink*

KublaiKhan

I am afraid that your analysis is rater naiive. If the law says that you must wear a seatbelt and you do not, and get injured in an automobile accident, then this will automatically prejudice any claims against your automobile and health insurances. At best I would expect them to be severely reduced.

In general, seat belts reduce injuries as well, thereby reducing the cost of a claim. It also means fewer days off work, improving the gross national product, and spreading the tax burden.

So, whilst I have no sympathy for idiots, I am in favour of laws that reduce my automobile insurance, my health insurance and my tax liability.

I guess it is a "double edged sword" or "catch 22" situation?

:)

Quote:

---

Personally, I kind of wonder why anyone in the IT field who's had to deal with supporting clueless lusers would advocate anything that could keep said clueless types alive to pester them any longer

---

So they can stay "employed" :p

Seat Belts and Common Dog F**k= longer life....................... period.

food for thought.... how many children would not be around today to be adults, if the carseat had not come around.

Quote:

---

An unrestrained child in a 50 km/h car crash would suffer the same consequences as a child dropped from a third-storey window. Put that kid in a car seat, and the chances of his being injured or killed fall by as much as 75 per cent - if that car seat is installed correctly.

---

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/childcarseats/

This is the law as well, so for those against the seat belt law, would you be willing to risk your childs safety for your comfort??

Hi dalek hope you are having a good w/e.

What puzzles me about this "anti-seatbelt" thing is that the proponents seem to think it is some sort of infringement on their civil liberties?

That seems very strange as the whole motoring thing is based on rules and regulations?...........speed limits, parking restrictions, one way streets, traffic lights, defective vehicles, overloaded vehicles, bald tyres?

I cannot see one more (sensible) one making that much difference :confused:

:)

Hi nihil

I am enjoying the weekend, tks.


I think what most people tend to forget, (and this is going to get a few individuals riled up), but the act of being allowed to operate a vehicle is in fact a "privilage" not a right, so yes you may think the seat belt law or the 50 Klm speed limit is an a**, but hey ,you don't get to decide.

Right now the big debate in Nova Scotia is the ATV's (All Terrain Vehicles), two young girls just recently lost their lives,http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2...313119-cp.html myself personally, if it's a motorized vehicle , then you should be required by Law to have a license.It may be a bit OT, but there are parrallels, and as I write this the RCMP are investigating the recent death of a 14 year old, who was not wearing a seatbelt when he flipped the car. He had a friend also 14 and his sister who is 16 with him, they survived.

The problem is that these kids live in the rural areas, and as is the practise in these places, young kids learn how to drive on the back roads (good idea in a way as there is no or hardly any traffic), but if you are out joyriding then this is the consequence.http://www.herald.ns.ca/ :eek:

Quote:

---

What puzzles me about this "anti-seatbelt" thing is that the proponents seem to think it is some sort of infringement on their civil liberties?

---

I too feel this way a little. I believe that most people that feel this way, as i do, feel that while speed limits, traffic signal laws, and the like are all affecting something that helps prevent you from hurting others ie, not driving too fast and causing unsafe conditions, or signaling before a merge so you dont hit someone who happens to be mertging in your blind spot into the same lane. The seat belt laws however, exccept in the case of minors, only affect yourself. Wearing a seat belt has no affect on the safety of the people you hit or hit you but only yourself. A good example in this respect is parachutteing. It is illegal to parrachutte in most areas due to people on the ground, buildings, utilitie wires and the lies, so you don't hurt anyone or any thing. this is akin to the speed limit laws in my mind. It helps you do what your doing in a way that minimizes your chances of hurting someone else. The new seatbelt laws are almost like just outlawing the jump alltogether because even if you are doing it in a previously approved jump area, your chutte could still not open and you could die. Its just a simple matter of does the government have the right to tell you that you have to be safe when it only affects yourself, and I feel that the shouldn't be able to.

Quote:

---

If the law says that you must wear a seatbelt and you do not, and get injured in an automobile accident, then this will automatically prejudice any claims against your automobile and health insurances. At best I would expect them to be severely reduced.

---

I'm not saying this isn't true, but I have never come accross this mattering where i live in Illinois. I have gotten into a couple accidents, both times buckled up,. and throughout the whole process there was never even the question of was i buckeled concerning my insurrance company. My brother also has gotten into a bad accident while he wasnt wearing his seatbelt, normally i would call him a dumbass right there but not wearing it actually saved his life, and everyone knew that he wasn't wearing it, cop who wrote the report, insurance agent, other person, etc., and it didn't affect his claim at all.

JewishIntent

Perhaps I should point out that dalek and myself come from countries where the emergency services and the A&E healthcare is funded by the taxpayer. People who do not wear seatbelts cost us money.

In your case, it should help to keep your insurance premiums down? If there is no legal requirement then you pay the price that way. As soon as it becomes law it will interest the insurance company, believe me!

;)

Quote:

---

Perhaps I should point out that dalek and myself come from countries where the emergency services and the A&E healthcare is funded by the taxpayer. People who do not wear seatbelts cost us money

---

I suppose if that were the case where I am then i would have to agree with the law since at that point it would affect me if retard A gets into an accident with that guy T and isn't wearing a seatbelt, and i guess the only real reason that i have an issue with the law is the fact that except for those few cases were you physically fly out of your car and then hurt someone due to not buckleing up wearing a seabelt vs not wearing one doesn't affect anyone but yourself.