Removable 160G HD

I have just bought a 160G USB HD, and was going to attempt to install linux on it, so when I plugged it in the computer before startup i could boot off of it so my parents could still use windows, but I cannot get the choice to partition it or even to reformat it to put on linux.
I tried partition logic first to partition it, and it didn't even show the drive. (im assuming that it can't read it because it doesn't have USB drivers)
Then I just tried using an install CD for linux to install it, but it didn't give me the choice to install it on the removable HD. I have tried everything I can think of, and apparently, I didn't think of everything, unless this is not possible, but I have seen it been done on USB flash, so why not on an HD..i don't know, mabie i'm wrong.
The drive works fine for storage in every OS I've booted up in (all the linux CD distros i downloaded within the last few days, haha; and windows), I just can't get it to work as a bootable drive. I really would like to have multiple partitions when I put linux on if thats possible. Any help is appreciated!

edit:
I just realised that it might be possible to treat it like a Flash drive and put on puppy linux or something, but with 160G, I would want a more 'full' linux (with more apps), like SuSE.

Have you setup the Bios so that it boots from USB hard drive?

maybe format it in windows as fat32 or something and then try again..

Maybe disconnect the internal hard drive on the computer only leaving the USB hard drive and see if that works..

It's not as straightforward as you think ... Allthough many people succeeded in this ...

Best way is to google it because there are many sites about this topic ...

Click here and pick the fruits

There is a workaround for the boot problem, you install the Linux to the USB drive (this seems to work without problems most of the time), afterwards you're linux won't boot so the workaround is to boot from CD again and use the rescue feature and adapt the grub or lilo or whatever with other settings.

See this link for info about that ... It worked for this person with Suse 10 ..

Hope this helps somewhat.

.C.

I agree with Fronties~ on this one.

As you can use it for storage, your system is obviously detecting it, and has the drivers for it.

You need to go into Set Up and edit your BIOS settings. Make sure that the drive is attached when you do this and set it to boot before the "C" drive.

With some BIOSes you may not be able to do this as it will offer you the main hard drive, floppy, CD and an option to "search for other bootable media". Obviously this last option will find the "C" drive before your removable USB drive :(

To get around this, you need to set the system up to multiple boot from the "C" drive, but install your Linux distros onto the removable drive. Then, when you boot, Grub or whatever will pop up and ask you which OS you want to use, and take you to the appropriate partition.

You will have to explain this process to your parents, but it isn't rocket science....................my wife has no problem with multiple booting machines, and she is just an average user apart from "office" and other applications.

I suspect that your problem at the moment is that it runs through the BIOS then goes to the "C" drive and finds Windows lurking there :D

You need a boot loader that handles multiple OSes

thanks guys..but I didn't even get to that step yet. I couldn't even get linux installed on the drive (mabie i should try again), but when I tried to re-partition the drive last time, it wouldn't even come up as available to partition (only my C drive came up). I'm probably doing something wrong, but I don't know what. My BIOS gives me the choice to boot from 'removable device'. I am assuming that is what I need to do after I get linux on the drive.

I don't really want to have to do the multiple boot startup; you said I would only have to if the BIOS only has the search feature, as I am thinking 'removable device' is different, but i may be wrong. Thanks again for your help though! :)


Update: I messed around with it on Knoppix and i got it to partition. I was talking to my friend and he said it was good to have a linux swap partition, so I made one that was 1G. The other partitions are a 15G for linux and the rest is a fat32 for storage. I tried to mount the drives and I got errors for all but the 15G linux drive.

sda:

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Could not mount device.
The reported error was:
mount: I could not determine the filesystem type, and none was specified

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sda3:

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Could not mount device.
The reported error was:
mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda3,
missing codepage or other error
In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try
dmesg | tail or so

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I used qtparted to partition. Now when I go back in qtparted, It shows two partitions (the linux 15G and the 1G linux swap), but the last 133G comes up as unknown. I try to repartition it as fat32 and after the partitioning is done, it still comes up as unknown.

Can someone please help me with this? I would let ithe thread go, but 133G of my drive isn't working, and I can't just leave it how it is. I have tried doing this a lot of times now, and I still can't get it to work. I tried formatting the last partition in windows, but I could only partition it in NTFS and that would redo the whole drive to NTFS.

You can't just set up linux on the usb HDD and then set the mbr to load that partition. The master boot record would be on the c drive and it would tell the computer to divert to the partition on the usb hard drive. And you say "like SuSE" but what distros do you have and which would you prefer to use?

If you tell me what distro and version, and what bios and version you have I'll try to help you.

i will be setting up SuSE on the drive. I just downloaded it like two weeks ago.
I have a Dell, so this is the BIOS
http://support.dell.com/support/down...l=en&cs=&s=gen
I will check what it is later today when i have time, sorry.

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You can't just set up linux on the usb HDD and then set the mbr to load that partition.

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Are you saying 'boot from removable device' won't work?

Here are step by step instructions I found on another forum:
http://forums.devarticles.com/showpo...79&postcount=4

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Let me start by saying that not only is it possible to install and run linux from an external USB drive, I am doing it right now. To date I have successfully installed Suse, Fedora and Ubuntu on an external drive, as well as having Frugalware and PCLinuxOS on my internal HDD, all available through boot options in GRUB.

You would be right in assuming that if your BIOS has USB boot support, there shouldnt be a problem at all. The thing with Linux is that most distributions don't have USB support loaded into the kernel during the boot phase, so you will generally come across such errors as the root drive not being found, etc etc etc.

You can easily overcome this by creating an INITRD Ramdisk that will force the kernel to preload USB support during boot.

In the case of suse, you do this by:

1. Install Suse to the USB device (/sda, or sdb etc) - make sure you select to have the grub bootloader installed on the USB drive too, and not the Master drive.
2. Boot from the CD into Rescue mode
3. Issue the following commands:

'mkdir /mnt/sysimage'
'mount /dev/sdaX /mnt/sysimage'
'chroot /mnt/sysimage'
NOTE: sdaX refers to the partition u installed Suse on and the mapping of the USB drive (could be /sdb or similar too).

4. Use VI to edit the following file - /etc/sysconfig/kernel'
5. Add the following into the quotes at the line that has: INITRD_MODULES=" "
ehci-hcd
ohci-hcd
uhci-hcd
sd_mod
usb-storage


THIS LINE SHOULD NOW LOOK LIKE THIS:

INITRD_MODULES="reiserfs ehci-hcd ohci-hcd uhci-hcd usb-storage sd_mod"

6. Issue the following commands:

'mount -tproc none /proc'
'mkinitrd'

7. Add the kernel and initrd image to the boot grub loader on the master boot record (NOTE: for the initrd line, just add initrd (hd1,6)/boot/initrd - where hd1,6 is relevant to your partition setup)

A typical default Suse 9.2 install grub line for this setup would look like below (be sure to substitute according to your configuration):

title Suse 9.2 (USB)
kernel (hd1,1)/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8-24-smp ro root=/dev/sda2
initrd (hd1,1)/boot/initrd

8. REBOOT!!!

The steps for other distros are a bit different, but the purpose of the exercise is the same. If u need help with another distro, I can provide individual steps for that too.

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Try this and let me know if you get it.

thanks, but I am still trying to correctly format the drive. I can't get linux to partition the fat32 on the drive. I have the swap partition and the linux partition (i forget what its called) working, but When i reformat the whole thing with those settings, the fat32 drive comes up as unknown.

I will be needing that info you gave me after I get this done, so thanks again!

If you can boot into windows xp do so with the usb drive hooked up.
Go to the start menu and click run. Type compmgmt.msc and click ok.
To the left you will see a tree click on disk management.

I could sit here and run through the whole process but there are simple instructions from microsoft here. If you don't understand them just repost.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309000/

When I do this it only gives me the choice of using NTFS for that partition. Does that mean I have to use something like partition magic?

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How to format a basic volume
To format a partition, logical drive or basic volume:
1. In the Disk Management window, right-click the partition or logical drive that you want to format (or reformat), and then click Format.
2. In the Format dialog box, type a name for the volume in the Volume label box. This is an optional step.
3. Click the file system that you want to use in the File system box. If you want, you can also change the disk allocation unit size, specify whether you want to perform a quick format, or enable file and folder compression on NTFS volumes.
4. Click OK.
5. Click OK when you are prompted to format the volume. The format process starts.

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You sure there is only an option for NTFS? I don't know if it matters but what is the make and model of your hard drive so I can check out the man pages for it.

http://westerndigital.com/en/product...17&language=en

3. Click the file system that you want to use in the File system box. If you want, you can also change the disk allocation unit size, specify whether you want to perform a quick format, or enable file and folder compression on NTFS volumes.

This doesn't say anything about being able to change the type :confused:
is there any patch you can download to be able to do this? Or does MS want to quit using fat32?

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3. Click the file system that you want to use in the File system box.

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NTFS= NewTechnologyFileSystem
NTFS and FAT32 are just two different types of files systems.
A brief explanation of filesystems in windows.

If you right click the partition there should be an option in there to format it as FAT32. If you have already formated it as NTFS you may have to delete the partition and reformat it to get the option.

If you can't get it like that I can tell you how to do it from the command line.

I have tried doing all that and it would only let me choose NTFS, so I looked online for tuts, and they were all command line using fdisk. I tried doing this in a command prompt and it wouldn't let me.
also, if I try in DOS, the drive won't come up, will it, because its a USB device...just a guess of mine.

RTFM...
The drive should have come formated as FAT32 from the factory. IF you still need to western digital has a page that tells you how to reformat it in fat32 and has a utility.
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc....i=&p_topview=1
They have a page that also explains that:

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# A FAT32 partition cannot be created that is larger than 32GB.

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on this page:
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc....i=&p_topview=1

muert0 has a point there.

Windows 2000 and XP will not let you create a FAT32 partition greater than 32GB. However, they will support FAT32 partitions up to the maximum that the filesystem will support, provided that it is already there .................... and the theoretical maximum for FAT32 is two terrabytes.

:)

It was origonally fat32, but I formatted it in linux to have the two linux partitions and the fat32, and when I did that, it said it had to reformat the whole drive. So when that happened it wouldn't create the fat32 partition.

I don't need it repartitioned to just fat32 (thats what the program is for), and I don't think the program can just format partitions.

I think that you might have another problem?

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Now when I go back in qtparted, It shows two partitions (the linux 15G and the 1G linux swap), but the last 133G comes up as unknown

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15 + 1 + 133 = 149, not 160.

The actual size of the drive should be 156.25gb.
You get this by 160/1024=0.15625*1000

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and they were all command line using fdisk. I tried doing this in a command prompt and it wouldn't let me.

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It won't let you because fdisk was done away with in WindowsXP. The command you want to use is format.

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d....mspx?mfr=true

Partition it into sperate 32gb sections. If you don't windows will read a disk error and run chkdsk.

when I go into computer management it says 149.05GB, I don't know why. :confused:

I ran it like this:
format e: /fs:fat32 /q /x

When it ran i said partition too large. How do I change this? Do I have to go into linux and create all those 32G partitions?

Use the disk management tool I suggested before and try to break a 30gb piece off of your 133gb of free space and see if it will let you format it fat32 like that.

is allocation unit size the size of the partition, or does that have to do with the sector size or something...

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The maximum default cluster size under Windows XP is 4 kilobytes (KB) because NTFS file compression is not possible on drives with a larger allocation size. The Format utility never uses clusters that are larger than 4 KB unless you specifically override that default either by using the /A: option for command-line formatting or by specifying a larger cluster size in the Format dialog box in Disk Management.

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I read that from http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314878/ but I don't fully understand it. From what this page says, im lead to believe that it changes the cluster size, which changes the volume size. The largest it will let me do under NTFS is 64K (remember that it only lets me choose NTFS; for fat32 I have to use the DOS Format command). What size would that mean I should use for fat32 using the format command?

Did you try to break it down into a smaller partition and see if it would give you the option for fat32? The largest partition it will let you use the fat32 filesystem with in windows xp is 32gb.

I'm kind of tired of dealing with this because I don't think you are trying my suggestions. Maybe someone else will help you or maybe you will just have to find a good local shop to take it to.

Hmmm,

I find it strange that your system tells you it is 149Gb and that is what I pointed out from what you were saying earlier (15 + 1 + 133).

Muert0 has shown you the correct (accurate) calculation, which ties in with the manufacturer saying "160Gb"

So, where are the missing 7.2 gigabytes?

I would be inclined to get the HDD manufacturer's diagnostic tools and run a thorough scan (surface); it just might be that you have a damaged HDD?

Also, try booting into BIOS setup with the drive attached and see if it is recognised, and how big it is?

I honestly don't know what to expect if you try to format a 156.25Gb drive on a system that thinks it is 149Gb :confused:

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Originally posted here by muert0
I'm kind of tired of dealing with this because I don't think you are trying my suggestions. Maybe someone else will help you or maybe you will just have to find a good local shop to take it to.

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I really do appreciate all this help you have been giving me, and I do understand. I promise you that I have tried everything you told me to, and nothing seems to work. It won't let me do Fat32 in windows regardless of the allocation unit size that I try. It only says that I have 149.05GB in Windows (don't remember what linux said). Linux won't let me add a partition in Fat32. I don't even know what to do. I might just give up and run the program that resets it to its origonal full Fat32 format.

i'm running a diagnostics program right now to see if there is any damage.
I will post an update when it is done. (45 min to go.)

If the drive is OK, then you may be hitting the 128/137 barrier either in your Windows and/or your BIOS.

Please see this article:

http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc....MQ%2A%2A&p_li=

That is why I asked you how big your BIOS thought the drive was

;)

EDIT: You might try 30Gb as your primary Linux partition and 2Gb for the swap file, then see what it lets you do with the rest?

Why exactly are you wanting it to be fat32? I'm pretty sure you can read and write to ntfs with linux and it's a faster file system. If anyone disagrees please educate me.


But you should probably still dig into what nihil is saying. If it's a new HDD and it's damaged you may want to get it replaced before your warranty is up.

but with NTFS you aren't supposed to use over 70% of the space in the drive, right? Thats a lot of space that could be used in fat32.

edit: something happened with the diagnostics, and it stopped working when someone else in my family switched users, so its been paused for 6 hours. :rolleyes:

I have an updated service pack of Windows. (I downloaded the patch to make sure and it wouldn't let me install.)

It could be my BIOS though. I'm going to check the BIOS as soon as the diagnostics tool is done doing its thing.

I don't think it really matters what filesystem you use if you stuff the whole 130gb full it would take 2 years to defrag the drive.

haha, your right..

I did think that linux wouldn't write to ntfs, thats why i wanted fat32 in the first place. I tried on Knoppix and it wouldn't write, but it could read. I haven't tried SuSE yet, and was planning for the worst by using fat32, thats all.

Hmmmm,

As for the drive utilisation I would say that you are OK up to 80%, once you hit 90% you can expect serious performance issues, and that goes for both NTFS and FAT32.

Not only will you have problems with defragmentation, you will have problems with any decent sized database and your page file could be restricted. Basically, Windows maintenance tasks do require a reasonable amount of working space.

IIRC the issue with Linux was writing to an NTFS partition, not reading it. I would have thought that was a thing of the past with the latest distros, but I could be wrong.

I have normally associated FAT32 with supporting legacy applications running under 98/ME on a box that booted one of those and an NT based OS. In the past it was also used for Linux, where you wanted it and Linux to be able to write to the same partition.

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I have an updated service pack of Windows

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If that is XP SP2, I seem to recall that brings you up to automatic 48bit addressing support. So it sounds possible that your current version cannot understand a drive bigger than 137GB (128Gb in binary). That would give us 15 + 1 + 137 + the "missing" 7 = 160Gb?

To support 48 bit addressing, your BIOS and your OS need to support it.

;)

I do have SP2. I just updated my BIOS, and if it doesn't support it right now, I don't know how to get it to.

Hi met~ ,

I am not saying that this is related to your problem, only that it might be, because I have come across this before.

This site: http://www.48bitlba.com/

has some useful information, and even a tool that might help ;)

I would recommend that you try going back to my original suggestion and load Linux via the C:\ drive. The bootloader (Grub or whatever) will then ask which OS to load.

What did the diagnostics tool say?
How big is the drive in your BIOS?
How big is the drive in Windows?

What version of USB support does your machine have? and what version is the drive.

At this point I would suggest formatting the drive as 100% NTFS and see if you can get your system to recognise it as a 160Gb. That will at least rule the hardware out of the equation?

Sorry that this is taking so long..................I am afraid that "remote control" is not the best method for sorting these kind of problems :( and that is without taking into account our time zone differences?

Just stick at it mate, and I am sure that we will get it sorted :)

I really appreciate it!

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I would recommend that you try going back to my original suggestion and load Linux via the C:\ drive. The bootloader (Grub or whatever) will then ask which OS to load.

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Wouldn't it just be easier if I could get it to work just by plugging it in? I set it in my BIOS to load up by the external first if it has an OS, so it should work.

By BIOS has USB support, and It recognised the drive, but I couldn't check the ammount of space it has. The area in the BIOS where it displays the info only had 'primary IDE Master' which is my 80GB HD thats in my PC. I tried to set my external to everything, but it said nothing was installed. I know my BIOS has the support for USB, because in the startup order, where you can choose the order of the hard drives to boot from, it said '1600JB External'.

My computer has USB 1.0 :rolleyes: which makes that drive amazingly slow, so yea, im getting USB 2 in the near future.

Edit: the diagnostics tool didn't have 45 minutes, it had 45 hours left! I forgot to post this earlier, This has to be because of the USB 1.0. So I didn't finish it :( .I ran the quick test and it said everything was alright.

I am running qtparted in knoppix, and it says my HD has 152628MB of space with 312581808 sectors. Thats not the right ammount, so I'm assuming its my BIOS that has a problem with the large size drive, unless linux has the problem with it.

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Wouldn't it just be easier if I could get it to work just by plugging it in? I set it in my BIOS to load up by the external first if it has an OS, so it should work.

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NO. It proabably wouldn't. Stop asking for advice if you don't want it.

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my HD has 152628MB of space with 312581808 sectors. Thats not the right ammount

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Having checked that model of Western Digital drive I would say that it is correct. The drive has slightly more than 160Gb (manufacturer's rating). So, 160000 / 1.048576 gives 152588, which is close enough.

On reflection, you need to install your boot loader onto the USB drive as well as the OS, and rely on the BIOS settings (boot order) to find it.

I also believe that you may have to introduce a delay in the linux boot up routine to give the USB drive time to get ready to run.