Microsoft's new anti-piracy technology...

...they're taking it to a new level with Vista and Office 2007:

1) Unactivated Vista, after 30 days, will run in "reduced functionality mode" until activated. One hour of web browsing and then you're disabled.

2) Microsoft will continue to check if Vista was legitimately acquired, even after activation. Should a license key be deemed illegitimate, the user will be given another 30-day grace period to acquire a legitimate license key, Microsoft said.

3) As part of the effort to fight piracy, Microsoft is changing the way businesses license its software. New licensing systems will replace the current volume license keys, which have been widely abused. Starting with Vista, Microsoft will offer two different types of keys and offer three different ways to distribute them within an organization. In all cases, some more work will be required on the part of the technology department at a company.

4) Additionally, the functionality of Windows Defender will be crippled, and optional downloads from Windows Update would be unavailable to the unlicensed user (already the norm, isn't it?). Microsoft would also place a watermark on the desktop at all times that reads "This copy of Windows is not genuine."

5) Vista activation won't be permanent. If Microsoft discovers that the user has used a product key without authorization, it will force the user to reactivate his or her copy of Windows. Product keys may be blocked for a number of reasons, Microsoft says, including for abuse, stolen or pirate keys, or if the key was seized due to anti-piracy efforts.

Sounds like a nightmare. I certainly hope they've worked thru all the validation issues the had with their "Genuine Advantage" program.

http://www.betanews.com/article/Micr...sta/1159977311

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/product...a-piracy_x.htm

Hmmmm,

Anyone going to open a book on how long it takes for that to be cracked and worthless?

What Microsoft must do is bite the bullet and accept that they are dealing with organised professional criminals who make a lot of money out of stealing and distributing their software. These guys are not going to give up this lucrative business because of this nonsense.

The key is hitting at the distribution and the professionals, as those are the people who are seriously hitting their revenue.

If the music and film industries cannot do anything about it, what makes Microsoft think that they can?

The only successes I have seen of late have been those directed at the distributors.

Just my £0.02

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Microsoft would also place a watermark on the desktop at all times that reads "This copy of Windows is not genuine."

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I want a copy of that for my slack box.
:cool:

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Additionally, the functionality of Windows Defender will be crippled,

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That's cute....already Trend Micro 2007 on installation when it detects Windows Defenceless tells you to get rid of it...lol....let the fights begin... ;)

Well, Nihil, if I headed an IT dep't, I'd be thinking long and hard about #3: "...some more work will be required on the part of the technology department at a company." From what I've seen at the enterprises I've been in, their people are often already overworked. MS's new licensing scheme certainly promises to be more costly for their customers than the old one.

As for the "organised professional criminals who make a lot of money out of stealing and distributing their software", they will be leaving the consumers who thought they were legit MS customers holding the bag while they move on. And personally, I'm NOT convinced "organised professional criminals" provide the bulk of installed bootleg copies. The bulk of the bootleg stuff I see out there is someone who got a copy of an app from someone else and installed it.

The most proficient techs I know often cut their teeth on unlicensed software. In fact, I'd say I've run my share of it, but I'm probably better off pleading the 5th (it's a Yank thing). Interestingly, I did do a very informal survey back about 5 years ago of helpdesk techs I routinely talked to. I'd inquire, after dealing with the issue at hand, if I could ask them a personal question (I'm a bit of a schmoozer), and of course, the answer was usually 'yes'. Then I simply asked them if all the software they ever used in learning all that they did about computers was properly licensed and paid for. The responses were always one of two: first, "No", and second, a nervous "I can't answer that". He-heh, it is so ironic that in the hundred or more such inquiries I ever made, not one single tech told me, "Yes", that all they had was licensed and paid for.

As you suggest, the kind of licensing scheme Microsoft uses will always experience some 'seepage'. Methinks the real victims of this kind of draconian licensing enforcement will more often than not be legitimate customers or those who honestly thought they were legit. I've seen far too many mistakes in MS's current WGA scheme to trust MS to do it right. Maybe M$ should learn to live with the fact they'll never squeeze those last drops of blood from of their customer base...

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they're taking it to a new level with Vista and Office 2007 Unactivated Vista, after 30 days, will run in "reduced functionality mode" until activated. One hour of web browsing and then you're disabled.

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I know a lot of our customers 'ignore' the 30 day activiation notification message (near the systray) IMO with them doing that it is going to cause more headaches and more problems for Microsoft, not to mention help desk and ISPs.

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the user will be given another 30-day grace period to acquire a legitimate license key, Microsoft said.

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How nice of them. ;)

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Additionally, the functionality of Windows Defender will be crippled, and optional downloads from Windows Update would be unavailable to the unlicensed user (already the norm, isn't it?). Microsoft would also place a watermark on the desktop at all times that reads "This copy of Windows is not genuine."

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I'm sure there will be a registry hack/away to bypass it. There always is. ;)

Hmmm,

I am not knocking Microsoft but from a Wall Street/stockholders' angle

Like brokencrow was referring to?

Yes I saw that mate:

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In all cases, some more work will be required on the part of the technology department at a company.

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Oh goody...............time to revamp my Bill Gatesing stationery? :D .................kind of the great man to throw us proles a few crumbs from the table?

As for the "pirate" copies, I realise that is a moot point, as there really is no way to know what private individuals get up to, but the gangs can be more closely monitored due to seizures, criminal intelligence and the like.

I would also point out that the Far East is rife with pirate copies rather than "sharing".............. like this could be 70% of installations?

I agree with you that the problem will probably just hit legitimate customers................they know where we live? :eek:

Actually, there is a fair bit of organised software piracy in the UK. It is a criminal offence over here so I get to know from hearing about busts. Same for DVD, CD, designer shoes & accessories, perfume, cigarettes....................... "a nation of shopkeepers gone bad?" (apologies to Mr Bonaparte).

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Then I simply asked them if all the software they ever used in learning all that they did about computers was properly licensed and paid for.

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Well my answers would be "no" and "certainly not"................ if it is given to me or sent to me by a "responsible officer" of the organisation, then it is legal.................that should have been your third question?

When you deal with an outfit straight, they deal back that way.............and "rules" do get a little "bent" as it makes more sense for someone from the customer to provide level 1 & 2?................. then it sort of slides into level 3 and beta testing?.............. you must have gotten a free copy by then?

Linux is looking better and better.....
The only M$ Stuff I have is on my laptop....
The rest is Linux based

Seriously, Activation and Validation are the main reasons I
never migrated to XP. I have a low tolerance for small
annoyances. If my legitimately purchased OS falsely
claimed to be pirated, instead of calmly calling them and getting
it sorted out, I would prolly break down and cry, and in a fit of self-pity,
go down there and do something we would all regret.

I can fix just about anything that goes wrong with win98.
It's at least as secure as XP, runs on modest hardware
and only crashes once a week or so. It's bulletproof. My wife
can't destroy it.

My own workstation is Slackware Linux. Would I give that up
for an unproven Microsoft OS? What do they really have to offer?
I've got enough on my plate without any computers that threaten
to quit for non payment of the bills. It's no secret that they want
to evolve toward a system of leasing the software, rather that
a permanent license. Maybe businesses can cope with that
but I can't.
:cool:

When XP came out, there was a lot of BS from MS about licensing. You were only going to be allowed to install the OS twice, and then you were going to have to buy a new copy. They backed off of that. I've got a feeling MS is throwing out feelers at this point and some of that stuff they're saying will change, particularly if that activation check turns into a snafu.

Makes me wonder how truly secure your PC is when MS has their nose in it every week or every day. No wonder a number of foreign govt's are trying to push themselves away from Windows.

He-heh, I always wondered if Steve Ballmer was a backdoor man. ;)

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Anyone going to open a book on how long it takes for that to be cracked and worthless?

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Hmmm... how about how long until malware writers mess with the windows activation and/or product key to start locking users out of their own PCs.

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Originally posted here by phishphreek80
Hmmm... how about how long until malware writers mess with the windows activation and/or product key to start locking users out of their own PCs.

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Oh.. the future of the kidnapware.. Pay us 50 dollars and get your Windows back :)

But indeed.. Just like when XP came out.. It'll be hacked and cracked before it ever crosses a counter..

So for all of us upgraders and modders how many changes can we make before our genuine license is considered "un genuine"?

I legitimitely own 3 copies of XP and 1 Win2000. One of these boxes, the only orignal piece is the 3.5 floppy (nostalgic reasons) and the case. That key has only been registered once and it was registered to me.

Time to migrate.

This is GOOD for open source software...

time to switch is now

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Originally posted here by very_unhappy
This is GOOD for open source software...

time to switch is now

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I agree. People in the markets that are not paying for it won't be able to afford it. Who cares if they release a version with fewer features... My buddy from Serbia says he doesn't know a single person who actually owns any software out there. They make less than $200 euros a month... you think they're going to spend it on software? They have clothing, food and housing to take care of first. They pirate EVERYTHING. He actually bought his first peice of legit software when he was in the states. He felt like he had to since he was making enough money while he was here.

The more difficult they make it for the people that can't afford it the better. Those people won't pay for it because they still can't afford it. Who is going to work one whole month just to use the OS? Then two more months just to type up a word/excel doc?

Guys in the US think its crazy they have to save two months salary for that diamond ring if they want to get engaged. You think people will feel that way about software?

I personally think more and more people will make the switch to linux and open office. Either that, or simply not upgrade from XP. I have no reason to upgrade to vista... except maybe to just keep up with the OS so I can work on people's boxes that do have it. I'm not recommending anyone to upgrade though...

I actually still prefer 2000 over XP! lol

quote phishphreek80

I personally think more and more people will make the switch to linux and open office.

I will make the switch,if i can download a linux with wine pre-installed and EVERY win 32 app/game runs on it!

Since i don t want to spend time to learn linux only this will make me switch.

For me an OS is like a car........i want to drive it without learning all the inns and outs.

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Then I simply asked them if all the software they ever used in learning all that they did about computers was properly licensed and paid for.

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Well, I don't know if it has changed, but even with XP ( when I first started using it ) as I recall allowed for 30 day installs for learning purposes.

I have installed my licensed copy on other machines a few times to see how XP would react to different things such as partitioning software, drivers, updates, etc., and all was acceptable within the EULA as long as I deleted it when I was finished learning .

If it wasn't I don't think there would be any admin that wasn't in violation!

I wonder how many people really understood the question?

I am actually enjoying reading about Micro$oft in the news... It is like reading the Sunday comics. ;)

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My buddy from Serbia says he doesn't know a single person who actually owns any software out there.

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No one using Windows owns their software. They own a license (perhaps!) to use it under certain conditions, nothing more. No one save for ass't programmers and software companies own software. No one.

The Great Illusion.

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Originally posted here by brokencrow
No one using Windows owns their software. They own a license (perhaps!) to use it under certain conditions, nothing more. No one save for ass't programmers and software companies own software. No one.

The Great Illusion.

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Ok, you got me there. But, you know what I meant.
Nobody pays for the "privledge" to use the software.

All your software are belong to me. Muhahahaha!

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rcgreen said...

... win98. It's at least as secure as XP...

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Did you just say that with a straight face? 98 runs NTFS now (natively, non third party)? 98 can enforce user login? 98 can enforce policies? When did this happen? Is 98 even supported any more... I thought that the patch cycle for 98 and 98se was stopped a while back.


Now on to this anti-piracy kick that MS is on. They are going to do nothing other than drive some enterprise customers away... the harder it is to install/administer the less likely it is that large enterprises are to run it. I don't doubt that many organizations will be looking to RH/Sun/*nix for an easy fix. This could very well be the impetus that many of those organizations are looking for to make the move.

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Ok, you got me there. But, you know what I meant.

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Sorry, phishphreek, didn't mean to sound so condescending. I do know what you mean. He-heh, I feel kinda sorry for all those users who will be trying to drive Vista without a license.

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Well, I don't know if it has changed, but even with XP ( when I first started using it ) as I recall allowed for 30 day installs for learning purposes.

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Thanks, IKnowNot. I didn't realize there was an "educational" clause of sorts in M$'s EULA. 30 days for learning purposes?

Would that be 30 EARTH days? Is that spelled out in their EULA?

Is it just me? I find some of the EULAs to be the most convoluted and obtuse documents since the great and notorious Indian treaties of the 19th century.

>I feel kinda sorry for all those users who will be trying to drive Vista without a license.<

The problem is with Microsoft. I had two brand new HP desktops with licenses on the case, properly registered happily getting updates. Microsoft switched over to version 6 of their update site and "Genuine Advantage" and suddenly both of these boxes were "un genuine" because I was trying to reach thru a proxy server.

I had to manually download the updates using "administrator options", basically the version 4 update site.

Now give Microsoft the power to "tag" a computer and strip its effectiveness if it decides a license is bogus, how many hours will genuine users spend on the phone with MS tech support?

Another issue is how many changes or hardware updates are you allowed to your box before Gates and Ballmer decide your license is no longer genuine?

It may very well be time to move my home network to Linux. We already use Firefox for the net, Gmail for mail, OpenOffice as our office suite. Gates can take his new OS and play with himself.

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Did you just say that with a straight face? 98 runs NTFS now (natively, non third party)? 98 can enforce user login? 98 can enforce policies? When did this happen?

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98 is secure against remote attack. Since my (admittedly narrow) definition
of security doesn't regard the user as a threat against his own PC, all that other
stuff is unimportant in my choice of a PC operating system. Policies? Bah, get
a mainframe and give users a dumb terminal. Let them try to install solitaire
on that!

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I have installed my licensed copy on other machines a few times to see how XP would react to different things such as partitioning software, drivers, updates, etc., and all was acceptable within the EULA as long as I deleted it when I was finished learning .

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I've gone over MS's standard EULA for the home edition, and find nothing about "acceptable learning". Check for yourself. Obviously, there's a number of EULA's, but I have my doubts MS allows the kinds of installs you're describing under their standard EULA's. If you can show me the language of their EULA allowing such installs, I'd be very interested. If I get a chance, I'll check a volume licensing agreement in our MS licensing packs at work (new job!). And with Vista's licensing technology, I can't imagine that kind of install being validated and authenticated.

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If it wasn't I don't think there would be any admin that wasn't in violation!

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Yep, that's pretty much what I was getting at. D@mn shame we gotta be sneakin' around just to learn what we need to know to support our users. :(

I'm sure that odds being what they are, one of these will be pirated... :D
[cheeky]

New Vista Versions
Vista Professional Edition
Vista Semi-Professional Edition
Vista Slightly Professional Edition
Vista Complete Amateur Edition
Vista Server Edition
Vista Server Premium Edition
Vista Server Not Bad But Not As Good As Premium Edition
Vista Server My Other Edition Is Premium Edition Edition
Vista 5 User License Edition
Vista Site License Edition
Vista Country License Edition
Vista Planetary License Edition
Vista Galaxy License Edition
Vista Universe License Edition
Vista Universe License Without Windows Media Player Edition*
Vista Home Edition
Vista Home Premium Edition
Vista Home Premium Edition With Some Server Features
Vista Home I Can't Believe It's Not Server Edition
Vista Away From Home But Have My Laptop With Me Edition
Vista Gamers Edition
Vista Mostly Play Games but Also Like to Surf the Net Edition
Vista Boot Straight Into World of Warcraft and Never Be Seen Again Edition
Vista Just Read Email And Clean Up Viruses Edition
Vista Downloaded Via Bittorrent Just Wait For The Subpoena Edition
Vista Erases Your iPod Edition (with Free Creative Player Voucher Included)
Vista Beginners Edition
Vista Intermediate Edition
Vista Advanced Edition
Vista Write My Own Drivers Edition
Vista One Finger On The Reset Button Edition
Vista Uninstall And Reinstall XP Edition
Vista ME Just Joking! Practical Jokers Edition
*Only Available In Europe [/cheeky]

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I've gone over MS's standard EULA for the home edition, and find nothing about "acceptable learning".

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Yes, I was mistaken about it being in the EULA ( I just checked my XP Pro disk.)
As I now recall ( age is a bitch ) it came from amendments to it on one of Microsoft's tech sites. It specifically spelled out what could and could not be done ( was intended specifically for testing such as I described. ) I am a stickler for trying my best to comply with licenses and such which is why I remember it.

I just did a Google search for it but don't have time right now to sift through all those pages referring to Academic and Educational Institution licenses, Vista testing, etc.

I printed it somewhere several years back, if I find it I'll let you know. I think there was even some discussion here at one time concerning it. Maybe Nhil remembers?

Firstly, let me make it clear that I am not a Microsoft basher...........we all know that VMS is the only true operating system.............. it is just that the garage space and the three phase power supply limit us?:eek:

Yes, we did have the discussion a while back.............. but I am getting old as well :D

One thing I have to say in Microsoft's favour is that they have NEVER refused to help me, and have never refused a reasonable request. Yes, I have done things that might not be strictly within the Law, but it has not been to their detriment.............well not over here at least?

In the UK they would have to prove intent to defraud and material loss, for instance...............

I do recall what IKnowNot is saying, and it was something along those lines.................... hey, they like as many frontline engineers who work for free as they can get?

:D

I'm suprised that a simple article in USA today that doesn't even begin to cover all the technical details of how this will work is already generating such disdain for the new policies... Don't you think that MS is going to take into consideration how this works and make sure that they don't lose money by overloading their support services with what will amount to free tech support calls?

Also, centralized license management is much better than the way it is done now.. I don't know how many of you have had to audit an organization to make sure all of your software license are legit, but it is a hard and time consuming task. Give me the ability to do all of that from a centralized server, and make it work well(which is doesn't now) and I will take that over the current enter a key on install method any day... I don't see this causing that much more work for companies that plan properly and deploy in a smart manner. If anything it will make things much simpler for very large organizations..

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Don't you think that MS is going to take into consideration how this works and make sure that they don't lose money by overloading their support services with what will amount to free tech support calls?

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When an organisation that size issues a DRM that will fail because the CMOS RTC battery is flat.............. I think you can answer that question yourself?

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I don't know how many of you have had to audit an organization to make sure all of your software license are legit, but it is a hard and time consuming task

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Yes, I have..........and it is a PITA..............BUT only for software versions........... the bloody OS is a mirrored clone, and God help anyone, apart from myself, who has anything different. :zap:

Errr, if you support "legacy" you try to do it off the networks? and on as few boxes as possible? ;)

I am afraid that argument does not appeal to me.............although I do believe in standardised software deployments...............the OS should be standard anyways?

If you have Microsoft stock, my advice is still to dump it. They are now thrashing, and have become so large they have attracted the attention of national governments................ there is only one way for them?..............you see, governments won't allow corporates to be larger than them?

;)

Nihil,

I agree about VMS.

I was almost in tears one night at the local computer recycling center as we tore apart a DEC Alpha server and its ancilliary equipment.

I could have easily mounted that 19" rack of equipment in my basement, storage power and could have shut of the central heat!

of course old would be DCL, PIP and RSX11M.

I won't even address Fortran 4 on an IBM 1130