Doesn't Boot...Sometimes

Ok, been messing with this one for a few days and perpetually running in circles with it. Maybe you guys can help!

IBM ThinkPad T41.

The computer doesn't boot up -- sometimes. That's the kicker right there that has me thrown. In fact, most of the time it boots up fine, so it's hard to intentionally recreate the problem.

I first learned of it when a user sent it back saying it wouldn't boot up properly. Plugged it in here, cranked it up, came up perfectly. Rebooted, no problem. Rebooted, no problem. Left it running all day, no problem. Rebooted a couple times more, no problem.

The next day, put it into standby -- problem. It wouldn't come back up.

Rebooted, fine. Put back into standby, fine. Reboted again, fine. Another day goes by, just fine.

Shut down, doesn't boot back up. I can hear it taking power, hear the fan running. No hard drive light, no nothing -- the only light I see lit looks like a titled "Z" inside a circle (I have yet to figure out what that light MEANS, haven't been working with IBMs for long, and never saw these on Dells).

Power down, power on, same problem. Little "Z" light lit, nothing more. Just the fan running.

Shut down, leave sit a bit, come back later -- boots up fine! Rest of the day, boots up fine. Reboot over and over, no problem. Go into standby, comes back up.

Come back hours/day later, shut it down, won't boot back up. "Z" light lit, nothing more. Wait a little while, try again. Boots up fine. Rinse, cycle, repeat.

I ran WinDoctor on it that I downloaded from IBM's site. All hardware passed all tests except for the HDD, which hung during the SMART test twice, never would complete, but never produced an error either -- just hung as if the hard drive was busy. So ran Western Digital HDD diagnostics for a second opinion, passed all tests. Went back to WinDoctor, passed all tests. Nothing but nice little green checkmarks. Ran chckdsk just as another precaution.

Reboot, fine. Reboot again, no problems.

Came in this morning, had left in standby overnight. Comes up fine. Reboot, fine. Windows froze, so I powered down without properly shutting down to see what would happen.

And here I am back to the one "Z" light and running fan, nothing more.

And a last FYI, battery is removed -- running on AC adapter.

Any ideas? I'm not sure where to run with this next, especially since I can't reliably reproduce the issue...

Back it up...sounds like the harddrive may be going.

Then run chkdsk

MLF

Yeah, ran chckdsk already. Fortunately it's a freshly wiped drive, so expendable if push comes to shove.

well found out what the little z with a circle arround it is... looks like its the power light and its supposed to be lit when the laptop has power.

ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs...39t6192_01.pdf

this is the manual for that laptop. hopefully it will help.

ok...short on the board, CPU overheating, bad memory...

I believe IBM has diagnostic tools for thier hardware

MLF

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moxquito

well found out what the little z with a circle arround it is... looks like its the power light and its supposed to be lit when the laptop has power.

ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs...39t6192_01.pdf

this is the manual for that laptop. hopefully it will help.

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Actually my understanding is the little circle around the Z means the system is ON. We have seen some issues with the IBM's having issues in sleep mode. It looks like the system hasn't booted or didn't boot when it's actually just in sleep mode. Closing the laptop and reopening often solved the problem.

Cheers:

Just a little correction:

I believe it means the power is on and NOT in stand-by mode.

Did you check for BIOS updates? ( I saw there was a problem with some when removing the unit from docking while in hibernation ... it would not resume. )

Quote:

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I believe IBM has diagnostic tools for thier hardware

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Yes there is, that is the WinDoctor I was referring to. Basically it works alongside the ThinkVantage system update software to run diagnostics on hardware and check software versions. As noted above, it passed all tests with flying colors, except for the brief hiccup with the HDD.

I'm going to swap out with another freshly wiped HDD and see what happens.

Will check on BIOS updates too...

[edit]

No dice on swapping hard drives. Booted up fine first time, wouldn't boot up second time.

It seems to happen most often when I have to manually power down using the power button. During normal reboots it usually does just fine. What I did this last time was let it sit powered off for a minute, then it came right back up. :eek:

Ok, update (apologies for the double post):

As stated above, no luck swapping drives.

Tried updating BIOS, says update not needed, so that should be up to speed.

I seem to be identifying a pattern however -- If I reboot normally, or shutdown and reboot normally, no problem. However, so far today if I shutdown by simply holding the power button and killing power, that's when it won't boot until it sits idle for a minute. Again, just the "Z" light and fan spinning.

as far as what we are required to do, try swapping memory with a working thinkpad... if still fails, sounds like a sysbd problem... if it is still under warranty, we can send it into the depot, or if you have onsite, we can send a tech out with a sysbd, to try to correct the problem... [though, PM me and I will tell you about some of the onsite stories I have heard] ... do you get any POST beeps, error messages, or just a dead sys when boot fails? ...

maybe its the windows

i worked on one once where the comp wont bootup from standby or from hibernation. in the power settings for the battery after the timer for "stop hard disk" ran out abd the computer shuts down. this thing just wont start up again. one had to press the shutdown button and reboot.

a fresh instillation corrected this.

baggi,

Does the same thing with two different hard drives, both fresh installs, so it's definitely not Windows.

I'm going to try swapping RAM next. Expect a full report shortly. :)

/edit

No dice. Tried swapping out with two other memory sticks, and it wouldn't boot up at all. Booted up on the original one though. Go fig. Now I'm further baffled. :eek:

AngelicKnight

RAM shouldnt do this.

as........ if RAM goes bad, it (comp) should start to beep (one beep one sec)

my own laptop used to shutdown unexpectedly (specially during startups and sometimes during running some programs or game) and there would be no error messages (on the screen). the only indication was that the fan would spin like crazy and 5 seconds after that the laptop would shutdown.
have tried swapping the RAM and the Hhd. nothing helped. the F*** thing would still shutdown.

till.....just recently inserted the Hhd without the top cover, held in place with a tape, opened the laptop and cleaned everything as much as i could, specially the fans,connections and put that paste on the processor which nihil had recommended and suddenly everything was fine.......like magic.

usually.... have seen one or the other kind of message pop up in the "event viewer" and have also noticed "dr watson" log something or the other.
there is always someplace that it is logged whenever something goes wrong.

let it give that horrible shutdown and after startup, get into the event viewer to check for "error messages"

You'd think, but let's just say if the Event logs were any cleaner, they'd sparkle.

NO LEADS whatsoever there. :eek:

Hi there AK,

I don't know the T41 so this is a pure guess:

I suspect that this behaviour might be intentional? like back in the days of Windows 9x you would get a blue screen that said something like: "Windows was not shut down properly, I am now running scandisk."

1. It works if you shut down properly.
2. It works after a short delay.

I think that it is a "feature" rather than a "fault" :D

Indeed, I'm starting to suspect the same.

Just cracked it open this morning to take a look too. Capacitors look ok, no bulging or leaking...

/edit --

Looks like we don't have our answer just yet -- It just failed to boot up after a normal reboot was issued.

/and another edit --

I think I'm on to something. Screen just went black with nothing but the "Z" power light lit WHILE I was in Windows. So I suspect it may very well be the monitor. After I took it apart the first time, after putting it back together and booting up, I noticed after a minute of normalcy all the colors jumbled on the screen. Took it apart again, reseated some connections, booted back up -- came up fine, until now.

So maybe it's getting power ok, but just not displaying on occassion. Not sure -- the only thing that doesn't add it up is this time, while going black while in Windows, there's no hard drive action...no light, no drive spinning, nada, just like when it fails to boot up.

Weird eh?

AK it seems to be a MB problem. I've got this kind of error on desktop with bad motherboard problems (or perhaps PS). Computer only power on after 3 or 4 attempts. PS clicks, some fans start and... nothing. Sometime i need to unplug the power supply to MB reset. But since it is a IBM laptop perhaps it will better to send it to them