Windows 7 security - Which system works best?

So this is where you AV folk hang out huh?

I'm in the market for some security software for a new computer, but know next to nothing about it. I have searched endlessly for a good review of recent software but haven't found anything recent or credible. I was hoping somebody could give me some pointers of things to look for?

This site did a quiz of my usage and recommended Bit Defender. How does Bit Defender stack up to others, and in particular Norton and Mcafee, or freebies like avast. Is it worth forking out the dough?

My new laptop is running Windows 7 PRO 64 bit, with 500GB drive, but I don't want anything thats going to clog up all the resources. My last laptop was running avast but I found that it was too slow and things were still falling through the cracks. And even though the scanners were picking up the viruses they were having trouble deleting them.

I don't really have any need for parental control or spam filtering (thanks to google). But I do want to ensure privacy and security, and my web browser (chrome) does the phishing, right? I don't mind forking out the dough if I'm getting the security, but which package is going to give me the best?

PS. The links in the Newbies FAQ are all broken... Someone might want to look into that

No single AV is going to get everything. Even if you have the most up to date signatures, someone can re-encode an old piece of malicious code, and get it past most of the AV products out there. I used to swear by AVG, but it seems to have turned into somewhat of a resource hog... When I am booted to Windows at home [which is rare anymore], I use Avast. It seems to function pretty well, with Windows 7 64b. And the price is right. Though, I also scan with Malware Bytes Anti-Malware, and Spybot S&D on occasion, just to check for stragglers.

Most infections can be mitigated with common sense though. Be careful what you click on, which attachments you open, which sites you allow javascript/flash for. NEVER USING PDFs. :D

Or you could just get a Mac, because it is impossible to write malicious code for them. :rofl: [Sorry, couldn't resist.]

Hi klonq, and welcome to AO.

Here are a few thoughts to ponder:

1. the finest security product on the face of the Planet is the human brain. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't seem to activate it when using their computers.:lildevil:

2. All multi-functional security products (suites) are resource hogs to a greater or lesser extent.

3. As westin says, no one product will find everything.

On that note, there was a competition a while back where teams were given 10 current malwares and had to obfuscate them so they got past at least a dozen of the leading security products. At least one team got all of them through, which means they had developed 10 zero-day items in the space of 8 hours! :eek:

I use the following products (all free):

1. Avira: AntiVir personal

I like this one because it is more configurable than most of its rivals. It has recently been updated and now, when I log-on, it pops up a little nag screen telling me that I am logged-in as Administrator :cool:

2. Spybot Search & Destroy

This is an on demand scanner so it does not take up resource in normal use. Set it to "advanced mode" and check out the various tools that come with it. It also has an immunization and realtime scanning capability called "Teatimer"

3. SpwareBlaster

This is complementary to Spybot, and only runs when you are running activeX applications.

4. Malwarebytes' Anti-malware, A-Squared

These are two on demand scanners that pick up a variety of items that others might not.

5. Tall Emu's "OnlineArmor"

This is a very powerful tool that you will probably find a real pain in the butt. Just remember that it might just save that butt ;)
It is a combination of a firewall and a software/behavioural monitor. When it detects a new process about to run it asks you if it should let it.

You have the options:

i] Allow.............let it run but ask again next time
ii) Trust............let it run and remember that for next time
iii) Run with reduced privileges

There is also a software installation mode, and a quick learning option when you first set it up.

OTHER STUFF:

These are really housekeeping tools but they do have security implications.

Secunia PSI (Personal Software Inspector)

This scans your system and warns you if you have applications for which there are security patches you haven't applied; or if the product is no longer supported by its vendor.

Where possible it will give you a direct link to the update site. It will also take you directly to the folder where the offending item is located, which is useful as not all products clean up after themselves, and leave vulnerable stuff sitting on your machine.:(

CCleaner

This cleans up residual crap from your machine, which might also be a location where malware is hiding.

[All these items run quite happily together on single core processors of 1.6~2.26Ghz, with 768~1500Mb of DDR1 RAM] so performance should not be an issue on today's machines.

Please remember that when you are scanning for and removing malware you should have administrator rights and do it in safe mode.

Quote:

---

and my web browser (chrome) does the phishing, right?

---

No web browser is secure due to their very nature. And I wouldn't trust any anti-phishing software to protect me. Security products are very dangerous if they lull you into a false sense of security.

At the end of the day, YOU are your own best defence!


@westin:

Quote:

---

Or you could just get a Mac, because it is impossible to write malicious code for them.

---

I don't know...........Steve Jobs seems to have managed:D

So they're all about the same huh?

I should put my money toward a new mac instead?

Well, the results vary each time they get tested, and I am always sceptical about the results of tests and reviews. At the risk of appearing cynical, I think that a lot of the results just show how good the product is at doing the test, rather than how good it is at protecting you in the real World :(

MACs and Linux.............................This is a popular fallacy, as at best it is "security through obscurity" which is never a good idea. Westin was joking:D

Nowadays a lot of attacks are at the user application layer, so if the application will run in your environment, so probably, will the malware.

When it comes to attacks at the operating system layer (into which I would include Internet Explorer) then it is true that MAC and Linux are "safer", but only because they are nothing like as popular as Windows, so people don't write malware for them because there is lower hanging fruit ;).

Please get the Secunia PSI application. After you scan look at the "patched" applications section...........you will be horrified by the extent to which your installed and fully patched applications leave you vulnerable.

EDIT:

I have just checked this machine running XP pro SP3 with everything fully patched.

Secunia recognises 91 applications (which includes browser plugins/addons), and rates vulnerability from 1 to 5, where 1,2, & 3 are relatively minor, and 4 & 5 would allow a hacker full control of the machine.

Of the 91, 32 are housekeeping, utilitities or security products that do not provide a viable attack vector to a remote hacker. That leaves 59 potential targets of which 38 (64%) are vulnerable, 27 (46%) of which could allow full control.

My emphasis is because the existence of a vulnerability does not mean that there is an actual exploit in the wild right now. Some may never have live exploits written for them because malware authors are percentage players.

Most problems I see with systems...is lack of RAM.

I still come across xp systems with 512MB....

I have worked on 2 64 bit windows 7 laptops with 4 gigs RAM...and all is well...and both are running Symantec Endpoint with out any real resource issues.....and as we all know.... Symantec is a notorious resource hog.

So far I have been impressed with Endpoint....have it on several XP Pro machines...1-2 gigs RAM and have had no issues with it.

MLF

Quote:

---

Symantec is a notorious resource hog.

---

Quote:

---

So far I have been impressed with Endpoint....have it on several XP Pro machines...1-2 gigs RAM and have had no issues with it.

---

Interesting comments, especially from a troll ;)

For years, part of my SOP has been to uninstall the Symantec pig and install avast.

Guess it's time to revisit symantec.

Who you callin a troll mista??? ;)

oh yeah :rolleyes:

Yes ...surprisingly Endpoint has really given me no issues....I have disabled it and uninstalled it on problem machines thinking it was the problem...only to find out it was some acrobat shite...or video driver etc causing the issue.

I have seen resource issues with avast(free version)...specially on xp home machines..with minimal RAM....mostly just on startup

But then again...i find lately I have very little patience...specially with home machines and users that have to install every gawd dam toolbar and add on in existence ...

I make it a policy not to tell anyone I work in IT anymore....or lie and say I dont do windows ;)



MLF

Quote:

---

I have seen resource issues with avast(free version)...specially on xp home machines..with minimal RAM....mostly just on startup

---

Avast! have just released a new version. I haven't had a chance to examine it yet so I can't say if that has improved or not.

I have it on a 2.66 core2duo with 1Gb of RAM, so I am not really expecting problems.

Quote:

---

Most problems I see with systems...is lack of RAM.
I still come across xp systems with 512MB....

---

Same over here....................mostly ex-corporate machines that probably didn't have a full security suite on them. The new owner then goes and buys one of these full-blown security suites and wonders why the machine is slow.

My wife bought a machine from her workplace a few weeks ago: Pentium core2duo, XP pro SP2 (!!!!:eek:) and.................you guessed it! 512Mb of DDR1 RAM :D

So I stuck in a 500Gb SATA drive and 512Mb of RAM then applied SP3. It made quite a difference. One thing that struck me was that it only had a 40Gb drive in it (I didn't know that they made SATA drives that small), so it must have been part of a network, possibly a thin client environment?

It came with Avast! on it................and I know that hundreds of these things have been unleashed on the unsuspecting East Yorkshire public:lildevil:
Thanks for the heads up MLF :)

I have also seen configuration problems with security software, particularly the free versions, which tend not to give you many options. I am mainly thinking of gaming here.

I personally don't use "scan system on startup" or "scan file on closing" as I really don't see them catching much that scanning before shutting down and scanning a file on opening won't.

With a modern computer I really don't see resources as an issue; if you are having problems it is more likely to be software incompatibility and conflicts.

I only have two machines here with more than 512, and considering XP doesn't require more than 128 why would someone think they had to upgrade that? Anyone in Michigan is probably not thinking twice about RAM considering the economy in this area.

Quote:

---

and considering XP doesn't require more than 128

---

To work half decently it requires 512................to work properly it would want 1024...............and that is without shared video memory.

Sure "it will work", but I would have hoped that MS have learned from the Vista debacle?..............."will work" and "will work properly" are two different things?.............hey! I have Win95 running on a Cyrix 386?????

;)

I saw Windows 95 on a 486 once.... It was about 5 years ago...I wonder if it's done booting yet.

.toptenreviews.com is a blacklisted domain. I would advise not visiting it.

As far as deciding which AV to go for keep in mind the top out there. There is and will be a downside to all of them but make sure you go for someone who is in the top bracket. To me that is

Symantec, Trendmicro, McAfee (although I do hate them), Kaspersky (I use it).

I really wouldn’t bother myself with multiple anti-malware. Get one (make sure you pay for it and download it on a clean machine or at least from the developers website. Most of them have MD5's or SHA1 listed on the download page or you can also ensure authenticity of the data by digital signature verification on the installer file. Install the AV and keep updating it.

Update your OS. Try and use an alternative browser to IE. If you must use IE keep it to sites that are reputed. Try and never install a software from an un-trusted website (doesn’t matter if they offer it for free).

Get a good firewall (Agnitum's Outpost is what I use). This is only if you don’t buy an internet security suit from any of the above vendors.


Download Trendmicro's new housecall scanner (http://go.trendmicro.com/housecall7/...llLauncher.exe) scan your machine using this once a month or week if you can..

Lastly and the most important one. Use a NON-ADMINISTRAOR privileged account for your day to day use.



Good night mate its 3 AM here ;)

Quote:

---

Lastly and the most important one. Use a NON-ADMINISTRAOR privileged account for your day to day use.

---

XP was the last version of the operating system to allow idiots to go about their business on an admin account. I would still take it a step further and enforce the use of guest accounts rather than a user account.

This way even if even if malware displays dialog boxes and walks the user through the process of giving it write access... it still wouldn't be given write access to any directory or file; regardless if the user has screwed up (or disabled) the UAC.

Quote:

---

I saw Windows 95 on a 486 once.... It was about 5 years ago...I wonder if it's done booting yet.

---

I have Windows 95B build 1212 running on a 486 DX4/75MHz with 32Mb of 72pin EDO RAM. It works just fine; but remember that the last DX4s were faster than the early Pentiums. Windows 95 was just a rather clunky and unstable OS, which didn't seem noticeably better on a PI/150 with 64Mb PC133 SDR.

With today's equipment there should not be a hardware or resource issue, and you should be able to run any security suite.

Quote:

---

XP was the last version of the operating system to allow idiots to go about their business on an admin account.

---

Actually, it was worse than you say as that was the default setup configuration :eek:

Quote:

---

toptenreviews.com is a blacklisted domain. I would advise not visiting it.

---

I do not detect toptenreviews as being "blacklisted", and I doubt if they would be for legal reasons. This is the problem with those sort of "review sites":

Quote:

---

"The issue lies in the explosion of spam-review sites which are nothing more than websites promoting affiliate links under the guise of an official " review " site. Their main goal is to accomplish one thing - to send you to the site they are promoting and hoping you buy the product they are selling - if you do, they get up to a 75% cut of the sale. In other words, their reviews are up for sale - and are not anything but thinly veiled sales pitches

---

Basically, they will try to sell you any old crap so long as it makes them money.

I don't particularly trust any review site and am always suspicious of any that are not subscription funded. Hey! it costs money to run them and that money has to come from somewhere?

I can't say much about Vista because only one machine here has it and I don't exactly use it (It DOES have that Windows Mail Client though which I wanted to try out, but I can't because I don't have Vista, and an email client isn't worth it lol) the new machine I got for Christmas has Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit, and 4 Gigs of RAM. On Windows the machine works pretty well, and I don't see much lag ever, unless the damn AV wants to scan while I'm playing UT of some sort....

DOOM DOESN'T WORK ON WINDOWS 7.... So for each of those morons on TV saying Windows 7 was "Their idea" none of whom seem to be getting any shares of sales I might add.... Thanks for screwing up DooM.... I still haven't really had time to install it again and see if I can put it in a different directory, and the Compatibility mode didn't work at all because the game itself wouldn't even try to load because.... I think it was some Library, which I can look into when I actually CAN do that.

Windows 7 doesn't seem to be so bad about User Accounts. I remember XP by default used Auto Log in to Admin, which I still think is funny. Then again, in every house, the weakest link and easiest way in is usually the Windows, so I wasn't shocked either (Who names something that was plagued with security issues for over a decade after something someone can look inside to see what's IN the house, and then break to get in???) ...

I WAS however happy that after years of Microsoft ripping off other OSs (Usually Mac OS which they already admitted to I think... And BSD, but who hasn't?) that they finally took something like "Maybe not logging into our version of root by default?" which is nice, and the fact that no apps really use the admin account, and you have to actually TELL them (For example I gave Spy bot Admin rights) which was nice because then it isn't trying by default.

Oh, and it's nice they took the looks and other GUI stuff from Enlightenment! I LOVE Enlightenment, and still use it.

Of course, Enlightenment DOES run, without ANY lag I might add, on Slackware 13.0, on an Intel Celeron 433 MHz, with 192 MBs RAM, and an 8 MB ATI card that doesn't even have 3D enabled... And that's with the GUI making it Snow, Rain, and the Clouds floating while making a Playlist on XMMS, without even a little LAG. Which to me was actually shocking because I don't even have a 3D driver for that card installed..... I thought it was awesome though...

Hi Guys, thanks for all the tips.

My computer is running 4GB of memory so I think I will stick to the Symantec solution. For 3 reasons, firstly it runs the complete suite of security packages (firewall, anti-malware, etc), it falls into the top bracket of security vendors, and thirdly I will be rid of those damn pop-ups which came with the "free" trial on the computer.

I don't know. I really don't run AV on my home system. I hate - with a passion, Symantec Not just their AV but Backup Exec was fine until Symantec bought it and screwed it up.

/rant

One thing many people forget is that a virus in a program that replicates itself. I haven't seen a decent virus in years.

A vulnerability in IE or some other windows app, that is exploited via a web server you get tricked into visiting IS NOT A VIRUS!

At home I run with extremely limited rights, I use Fire Fox with the no script plugin to browse the web. a.k.a surf serious pr0n and warez sites. (The warez sites I surf from inside a VM so I really don't give a **** what happens since the VM is destroyed shortly after I'm done playing on the dark side.

Kid's laptops are restricted, have a modified host file and OpenDNS is on their network subnet. Yea I know I set up a vLan at my house - so I'm a geek... What 'cha going to do?

So unless you are on my workstation, know the admin account info, or bring in a usb, dvd, cd, 3.5" disk my home network is just fine with out AV services mucking things up.

Holy Crap!:eek:

I've been going about security all wrong:drink:........I think I'm gonna have to reformat every pc in the house....:(....wow

Hi AO's

My excellency about Windows 7 is zero.....

i just purchased a Sony vaio laptop ... running windows 7 home basic with 3 gig and I3


although i have trust on kaspersky internet security from along time.

and so i subcribed 1 year from KIS 2010.
and with that as suggested by nihil i have using Spyware Blaster and Spyboy Search and Destroyer. and Ccleaner.

but now my worries have started again because you guyz say avast is a better option ..

guyz show me a proper path way please

KK,

What you're running is going to be fine, when the paid subscription runs out then you can switch to Avast and save some money.

A little paranoia is a good thing but don't take it too far. Otherwise you'll never turn your computer on.

ANY virus protection program can let you down, the defense against computer virii is reactive, anytime a new virus surfaces a few people are going to get nailed before the virus protection programs are updated to defend against it.

Make your backups. You can lose stuff even without malware. I lost the hard drive in my laptop this week to mechanical failure, (sounds like a chain saw), luckily I have the data saved elsewhere.

Dave

KK,

I would say that Kaspersky is as good as any of them. Personally I would prefer it to Symantec, as I have seen far fewer conflicts with other software.

You have probably noticed that a lot of attacks these days are via applications, so it is very important that you remain fully patched: This is the tool that I use (it is free):

http://secunia.com/vulnerability_scanning/personal/


:)

Nod32 seems to have good ratings from some people. I personally rarely think about AV, and on Windows, whatever I can find that isn't back doored I'll usually be fine with. And then I use Spybot too.