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Has anyone had any problems with these?
I have just tried them on Windows XP SP3 and Windows 2000 SP4.
I cannot connect to the internet afterwards. I get to my ISP and ping seems to work, but trying to browse a website justs brings a timeout and "unable to connect to server" message.
EDIT:
The answer seems to be that KB951748 doesn't play nice with ZoneAlarm :rolleyes:
Installed the updates overnight and this morning i had no connections.
Had to remove the update to get online.
I use Zonealarm so what is the work - around this.?
Damn i even read your warning last night before the update...I should of waited.
Johnno i believe one of the updates that is causing this issue is due to this..
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/4775...et-hackers-web
http://www.doxpara.com/
Edit scratch that. read this link instead. :D
http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/22...-fix-kills-web
Hi blokes,
Sorry I was a bit sparse with that post but I ran the update (XP) and hit problems, messed around with LSPfix and the like and no joy, so I cut across to a Win 2000 box and hit the same thing. I tried to get the warning in to AO as soon as possible whilst I was looking into it.
InfoAU, right now I have uninstalled KB951748, but that cannot be a solution for more than a few days.
My only complaint is that MS obviously didn't test with ZA. That is surprising, because it is very popular?
I guess we will have to wait and see if there is another update.Quote:
Originally Posted by nihil
I will live with no update(1 out 3) over No firewall.
Zonealarm gave no indications of any troubles....Just no connections anywhere.
Well, you can now get the updated ZoneAlarm that works. 70_483_000. I have only tried it on Windows XP SP3 so far but will do Win 2000 in a minute.
It isn't an issue with Vista because Microsoft documented Kernel level hooking for that OS.
http://download.zonealarm.com/bin/fr...cessIssue.html
And here is a link specially for Info_Au (based on his avatar:lildevil:)
http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.co...n/seigmiaow.pl
:D
EDIT:
The fix works on Windows 2000 as well.
Thanks NihilQuote:
Originally Posted by nihil
I got the update today and all is working fine.
You hit the nail on the head with that link.
My cat looks Exactly like one of those cats on that page....Might have to post it and see if it makes the page.
Nihil what kind of a site is that. Are you a member?
EDIT: Nihil, this website is classic.
interestingly enuff, i came across the same problem. and come to think of it, it was right after windhoes updated. and not knowingly, i uninstalled zonealarm and got comodo and ran into a problem with my user logins, thnx alot microsoft. it would seem that update doesnt work to well with comodo either. man i wish i came here sooner
What I fail to see how is this microsofts issue...when some 3rd party software prevents a login or internet access because of a false positive.
Maybe the fault lies on the 3rd party
This was a hole that was identified in other oses
It is always good to consult with the 3rd party software website before applying any update...specially on production machines!
We all get tired of the MS bashing....
Just fookin get over it
MLF
I haven't pushed buttons in a while so what the hell:Quote:
Originally Posted by morganlefay
OK, consider the typical user for a second; They're told to update all the time, and I've personally tested this and know it to be true; If you install the updates, you'll note that some are in "Hardware" and if you install those from Windows Update, you've got about..... Hmmmm, one reboot, which is required, before that device no longer works.
Now if that isn't their fault, I'd sure wonder how it's not. My Mom's printer had an update so I decided to go ahead and install it. It stopped working after the "required reboot" as have other pieces of hardware on the machines I have where Windows is still installed on them.
They list everything from NICs to video cards to even monitors and mice on those updates, and if the average user installs them like they're told too and the hardware doesn't work afterwards, does it matter much if they don't know why? Or should Microsoft just maybe not offer those updates since it can break things? My Mom's printer is obviously fine and working again, but what if She didn't have ME for a son and had installed it like She would have been told to anyway? Then you have tech support tag to play while Microsoft says to call Dell and Dell says to call Microsoft since they obviously didn't tell you to download it, and Microsoft saying to call Dell because it's THEIR hardware and you installed an update for it.
Is that OK too just because they're a huge multi-billionaire company who gets picked on by nerds? They're still the majority, hate crimes depend on a minority most of the time. They have the term gay bashing because gays are a minority group, so going after them for being gay constitutes a hate crime. Microsoft are in the majority, and I don't think bashing can be used for that one.
Lol I forgot to mention that. Windows update will complain until you have it set to auto update meaning upates download and install all by themselves and I somehow forgot to mention that! Ah well I can now:Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosclown
Again for the average user who has to put up with this more than we do, is it their fault they didn't call Dell and wait on the phone for 4 hours while they tried to understand what exactly the guy "Frank Bababoubibababazara" from "California" (Come on they all lie and pretend they aren't sitting in a sweaty office in another country) says to them in broken English about installing update and so on? Is it really their fault they didn't call and go through all that and just installed the updates like the OS told them to set up to do by itself in the first place?
And for those worried about a flame war, fear not, Morgan loves me and thinks I rock like the stone age. No problems, just button pushing cause it's funny :)
You're lucky to even get support at all for ten to twenty year old devices.Quote:
They list everything from NICs to video cards to even monitors and mice on those updates, and if the average user installs them like they're told too and the hardware doesn't work afterwards, does it matter much if they don't know why?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjD4eWEUgMM
And oh boo-hoo... I had to roll back a device driver and maybe pay a little more attention to what im doing infront of the computer.
/MeQuote:
You're lucky to even get support at all for ten to twenty year old devices.
I use a Zimmer Frame
:D:lildevil:
Exactly! it is the way the third party chose to hook to the kernel?Quote:
What I fail to see how is this microsofts issue...when some 3rd party software prevents a login or internet access because of a false positive.
No problem with Vista though? because MS collaborated...........
yeah. when i first set that computer up, everything installed fine and i had antivirus and firewall running good, and completey updated. therefore my job there was done. its not till almost a year later, that this suddenly occurs. its not my computer so im not monitoring it 24/7. so when something like this happens out of the blue, not knowing that ms just recently updated and installed it by itself, i had no clue as what to do or where to start:confused: . but luckily enuff, the little knowledge i did have lead me to turn off zonealarm. so when that worked i thought it was something wrong with zonealarm. now tell that to the average user that theres something wrong with there firewall, who already thinks that some one can easily hack into said computer and mess with stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by gore
its not that im flaming ms:fpissed: , its just that how do u expect some one who knows nothing about these things, to just simply roll back a driver and pay more attention to what ms updates.
and further more if ms would actually put more into their firewall:eek: ,god forebid, then the majority of ppl wouldnt have zonealarm. so to that extent yeah thats ms' fault:cool:
Years ago in Dos there was "unsupported features", cool little hacks that made good shortcuts but they were "unsupported" that meant you couldn't count on them in a newer version, if you based your application on them it was your fault if it didn't work. Sucks to be you.
Fast forward to Windows, closed, no code released, you build a program/app to work with it and it does, you beta, you release, life is good. A few months later MS changes something and boom your stuff doesn't work.
Now we're not talking about some minority application like a billing system for an opticians office, we're talking about a firewall that millions of people use, doesn't MS have a responsibility to those 3rd party providers to make sure that their patch isn't going to screw things up?
So yes I'll bash MS all I want, they suck.
:D NO!Quote:
doesn't MS have a responsibility to those 3rd party providers to make sure that their patch isn't going to screw things up?
Any developer who hooks a system service description table would have already accepted the likelihood that their software will cause problems.
Not quite,
Sure MS don't have any obligation to third party suppliers, but I will say that I am surprised that they didn't test against major software suppliers............ particularly security stuff, that is notorious for conflicts.
Basically MS were too anal about their code for Windows 2000 and XP. They were very open with Vista, and that OS didn't have any problems.
Not unless someone buggers around with the kernel ;)Quote:
Any developer who hooks a system service description table would have already accepted the likelihood that their software will cause problems.
Boo hoo nothing you love me and you know it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Spec
And rolling drivers back wasn't a problem, I was just testing patches like I normally do. Good God who installs patches on anything production these days without testing first after the whole XP SP2 thing?
Now, who wants autographed copies of my latest album? :) (in all seriousness I just released it after finishing up some new stuff and taking some advice from you in how a lot of what I made sounded the same and I decided I agree and started new ways and new sampling styles to nip that in the ass right off).
I had the same problem, ended up just uninstalling the MS update. Does anybody know what exactly it was that was causing the problem? I do not necessarily think that MS should feel required to test out their stuff with various popular pieces of software such as zone alarm, but I do think they should be careful enough with their updates to not change something so drastically as to cause results such as this. At the very least a warning in the update description informing users that the changes the update contains may cause this sort of an issue. Then again maybe I'm just asking too much from a company that's charging so much for their operating system.
This may not be 100% their fault but it's not like they've never broken something before with fixes. Hell just install an off the shelf version of Windows that doesn't come with your computer and you'll start to wonder why people think ANY OS is hard to install. The installer of a REAL Windows off the shelf looks a lot like any other text based one. You have t do partitions, lay them out, just like you'd do in Slackware. The only difference is not many people do that and think the installation is that recovery disk you get with some PCs when you buy them, which it's not. You use that half version of fdisk it comes with and then you have to try and find drivers for everything. I still wonder how people can say it's easier than anything else when the store bought version is actually harder to set up than any version of Linux on that shelf which has drivers ready to go for most of the stuff you're likely to have.
I still have my copy of Windows 2000 Professional that I bought off the shelf, and getting it installed and running takes HOURS because it doesn't have any drivers for the NIC, I have to find the drivers for that, and of course you can't download them since you have no network connection, because it can't find the card that came with a Windows 98SE computer years before it, and the graphics are of course crap until you get the drivers for your video card, and the sound card is the same way, so you have to do all that stuff, and then it's update time. Download, install, reboot, repeat.
In Vista is it still the same where you have to download certain updates by themselves? I know in XP some of the patches you had to do one at a time because it wouldn't allow you to download those with anything else, which just makes it take that much longer to try and do, and on the Linux end, I can walk into a shop, buy SUSE off the shelf, go home, install, and not only is my NIC working, but so is sound and graphics, especially if you have Nvidia. And downloading updates you can do all at once.... I hate freshly installing Windows. It takes way to long.
Most people only ever see the crap the restore CD has which also includes drivers for all the hardware you have, which without that, you're searching for drivers yourself.
And even if you don't use a NIC, it's not like your modem is going to just work out of the box, you have to install drivers and reboot for that too.
I can't even remember the list of crap SP2 broke. I went on a class trip to a company for a networking class and the admin told us flat out they weren't going to even try to install SP2 because of the stuff they run and checking it on test boxes it broke everything. Of course now if you don't have SP2 you're screwed anyway.
Guess that's one way to get people to buy Vista, just drop support for anyone not on SP2 even though it breaks a lot of stuff.
Oh and don't forget that once you get updates that are listed ALL installed, you have to run Windows update again because then you have MORE patches to install to fix what they broke the first time they tried to fix what they broke, and once those are installed, you have another round of patches to fix what they broke with THOSE patches. After a while, and 30 reboots, you're almost done. But then if you installed Office you have to update and do all that again for Office.
Why on God's green earth you need to reboot for patches to an Office Suite is beyond me but you have to.
Now, of course I'll get half quoted here and someone will say I'm bashing or something or other, or tell me to just not use Windows if Linux is so much better and miss what I said entirely but, before someone does, here is a hint:
I can't. I go to school, and therefore I'm forced to buy software for Windows that barely runs on my machines because of the minimum requirements, and have no say in it because for some reason, they all use Windows in their offices too. Wanna know why? They don't even know that PCs have more than Windows to use in the first place. I know, I've seen the Mac lab. People actually think that if you run a PC you have to run Windows and that nothing else will run on it even though my laptop has Linux and XP on it, they think I just found a theme for XP to make it look like Windowmaker.
Hi there Gore
Well with Vista I jsut have problems installing one update, jsut keeps failing.
I will read up on any update before updating my box - I dont care what the update is :)
ROFL - Ahh that made me giggle for about an hour.Quote:
People actually think that if you run a PC you have to run Windows and that nothing else will run on it even though my laptop has Linux and XP on it, they think I just found a theme for XP to make it look like Windowmaker.
You're blind to the fact it's pretty specific to ZoneAlarm because their product is both the cause and effect.Quote:
but I do think they should be careful enough with their updates to not change something so drastically as to cause results such as this.
Steve Jobs will sell you the "iWheel" for your eternal soul. If your lucky he'll even let you suck him off.Quote:
company that's charging so much for their operating system
No. They just don't particularly like you. But they take alot of enjoyment out of watching you squirm each time a simple computer related task is needed. And they laugh behind your back each time you turn red-faced and slam your keyboard around.Quote:
I can't. I go to school, and therefore I'm forced to buy software for Windows that barely runs on my machines because of the minimum requirements, and have no say in it because for some reason, they all use Windows in their offices too. Wanna know why? They don't even know that PCs have more than Windows to use in the first place. I know, I've seen the Mac lab. People actually think that if you run a PC you have to run Windows and that nothing else will run on it even though my laptop has Linux and XP on it, they think I just found a theme for XP to make it look like Windowmaker.
The best part is when you put the mouse to your face like a microphone and yell, "stupid compoutar! Why won't j00 workz?!"
@greygnome
No, other than it had something to do with the way ZA was hooking the Windows Kernel in Win2000 and XP. The DNS problem ( not directly related to the problem, but a catalyst) was that stuff was tending to use a very limited number of ports. When MS increased the randomisation, ZA saw this as a threat, and denied internet access (I guess they hardcoded the allowed port(s)?). You will have noticed that this only happened when you applied the strictest security rules?Quote:
Does anybody know what exactly it was that was causing the problem?
Antitrust law enforcers would see that quite differently. Anyone remember the great IBM bashing sessions of the early 1980's? Basically, on its own, any operating system is about as useful as teats on a boar............. people run applications, and a free economy demands freedom of choice.Quote:
I do not necessarily think that MS should feel required to test out their stuff with various popular pieces of software such as zone alarm.
And the quickest and most reliable way to do that is on a test installation. Any other method would require an in-depth knowledge of a third party's product(s) which you are not allowed to modify, even if you were prepared to. That is why I expressed surprise in my earlier post (rather than outright criticism). In work environments you have "reference machines" on which you test new stuff, before rolling them out into your production environments. And I would point out that MS and ZA worked round the clock to get a fix out............. I am calling it as "one that slipped under the radar".Quote:
but I do think they should be careful enough with their updates to not change something so drastically as to cause results such as this.
//joke
"I never make mistakes.............. I thought I did once, but it turned out that I was wrong" :D
//
@ gore:
Huh?Quote:
I hate freshly installing Windows. It takes way to long.
Image/Mirror/ISO?
Slipstreaming? (nLite/vLite)
MS unattended installation?
I will look for the link to my driver backup applications for you.
I can only imagine that you don't use Windows that much so you haven't gotten a routine?
:D
Anyways, I love installing Windows........... it is probably the smell of the fresh PuTTY?
How many will actually understand that one?
yeah i like installing windows too. im constantly reformatting, specially when im learning, :D. as for PuTTY, ive never used any. i wonder what i could patch with that bad boy. :ph34r:
I just saw that... Given how my weekend has gone though, I don't think it matters much. It's after 9 AM and I'm still awake from when I got up yesterday. I had to get up early and go to my cousin's Wedding and told all his friends how he's terrified of Gnomes, so they went and bought one and while driving back from the store saw a garden in someone's front lawn with like 40 of them and so they stole like 4 of them and brought them all back to the hall while my cousin and his new Wife were gone to have pictures done, and set them up on the Podium where the guy "hosting" was standing, basically right in front of where my cousin had to sit... Then put another one on his chair, and another on the gift table and one at the entrance.Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Spec
He looked like he was enjoying himself until the one on the chair landed on his foot and he had to actually touch it. Good times!
Oh and I got to go pick up my Drunk Mom and Aunt who decided that "Hey we have a driver let's get hammered" and since my Mom rarely drinks at all, she was pretty much obliterated.
That ride home just couldn't go fast enough. And they thought it would be "cute" to have little bells at EVERY table in the place to ring when you wanted them to kiss since we all know no man has a hot meal at his Wedding.
Now, the humidity was at like 100%, it was hot, and just standing outside meant sweating. That gave me a huge Migraine, and then add to it my aunt was drunk ringing THREE of them... I got pissed and grabbed one from her hands and ripped the little metal piece out with my bare hands and handed it back... Which was a Kodak Moment(R) as she, being drunk, tried to ring it and didn't notice at first it was ripped out.... Which made everyone who was sober enough to not be obnoxious as crap laugh.... Yea....
Anyway where was I... Oh yes, rambling on and on about what I did that no one probably cares to hear about, yet I'm typing it so you'll read it anyway buahahahaha...
I don't use the mouse like a PA though I DO like that Dilbert cartoon too. And they probably don't have to laugh behind my back, I can hear it every time I reboot for a damned update to a media player that shouldn't need a reboot in the first place. Seriously what other OS on the planet needs a reboot for a media player? I'm no coder, but isn't that a bad idea to make a reboot necessary for an OS because Windows Media Player has another problem? Considering it came standard on Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition and I'm assuming the others too, which is dumb because a Server doesn't need media player anyway, isn't that bad and going to cause down time ?
*Shrug* Use the policy editor to disable that then.Quote:
I can hear it every time I reboot for a damned update to a media player that shouldn't need a reboot in the first place.
No, that's the way Windows works because these things are integrated with the OS. Obviously, if applications are integrated with the operating system, it makes sense that you verify their integrity when you update them?Quote:
Seriously what other OS on the planet needs a reboot for a media player? I'm no coder, but isn't that a bad idea to make a reboot necessary for an OS because Windows Media Player has another problem?
Run non-Windows supplied applications and all you might be asked to do is to restart the application, or you will be informed that the application will be updated next time you restart it.
As for Windows Media Player, you can uninstall it, or just not install it in the first place (custom Windows installation).
Yea, I know, I just thought it was funny the first time I installed it that it was there by default. I was like WTF is going on here, I don't think I've ever seen an admin who allows people to play movies or music on the server...
Exactly!
I am not sure what is in the default install, but I think that you get something like the add/remove Windows components screen if you select custom install.
I can't comment on recent versions of the server because I have never thought to look, and I have never had to do a clean install of one since 2000server.
I would mention that over here in the EU, MS cannot default media player in their installations.......... it is contrary to EU law :D
Yup, I remember when they got in trouble over that. As much as I thought it was funny I was a little weirded out they did it over MEdia Player which I don't mind as much when I'm installing Windows XP where I'm going to want it at first two rip CDs or whatever or make a playlist until I download something, I more or less think they should do it with IE. I mean if they at least gave you an option... And I don't mean a light version or a stripped one; I mean Windows XP should have the option NOT to install Messenger, OutlookExpress, and some of the other stuff where all you can do is remove it from the start menu.
Call me stupid but im sure you can remove OE , messenger in windows components under add/remove in control panel after the installation?
In XP? No, but you can remove it from the start menu. Which is what it says when you look for it in that area. ;)
Outlook Express??????????
I recall a while back when we had a BSE problem over here (Bovine Spongeform Encephalitis) a.k.a. "Mad Cow Disease"
This spoof went round that OE was incapable of spreading this virus...........
Bill Gates promised that this functionality defect would be rectified within the next 48 hours...............
:xbones::lildevil:
Aren't software firewalls a bit passé?
If you've got a decent gateway, why are you using something like ZA?
The only time I really need a software firewall is when I'm on some public
wifi hotspot. And that's so infrequent I consider Windows firewall good
enough.
Anytime you connect to a wireless network or any network for that matter... you're allowing someone to view and edit sessions anyway. *Shrugs*
By a decent gateway - I have a decent NAT enabled router - do I still need a firewall?
Your router/gateway is your first line of defense, as it should be. DoQuote:
Originally Posted by Cider
you still need a firewall app like ZA? No easy answer to that one. It's
all relative.
Laptops need a local (software) firewall. Treat all wireless networks
as hostile environments unless nailed down (PC's authenticate against
a Radius/AD server and the WAP's WPA-encrypted).
In contrast, a desktop run on a hard-wired only LAN, behind a gateway/
router, doesn't run nearly the same risk. On that kind of network, a
software firewall might help limit a virus outbreak if you're not patched,
but it's not necessary. The last time I was running ZA or Comodo, the
overhead (system load) was a bit much in my book and was glad to move
that function to another device.
In defense of apps like ZA, I did learn a lot from the app about what the
computer was doing at any given time and port behavior on a local machine.
But on a home PC a software firewall is not needed with a router with NAt enabled.
No netwokred computers to prevent malware from spreading...