Backing up to DVDs

Hey everyone, I've come to the realization that I probably need to start backing up my hard drive before it dies. I don't need a back up hard drive, as the data I am backing up does not change. So i'm backing up up to dvds. The question is, what measures can I take to keep the disks in working order, physical (ex: dry environment) or software-wise (ex: backup software) for an extended period of time (until I need to restore data)? I'm not stuck on dvds, they're just the cheapest way to back things up, and I figured if I didn't use them after I burned them untill I had to restore the data they would last a long time if I go through the correct process of backing up the files.

All backup media decays over time, you backup to be able to restore so just make a restore schedule to restore a few test files from your media and stick with it.

Light, humidity and moisture are the bane of DVD's so look for storage solutions that elminate those problems.

One of the biggest factors i have come across regarding lenght of life for CD/DVD's is the manufacturer.

You can buy cheap discs, and they die in 6 months time or dont even work on the first burn.

There are SOME brands that offer a lifetime guarantee on their media. It may cost you extra, but it is worth considering.

Please note that there will ALWAYS be inperfections and circumstances which will cause even the most secure data to be destroyed, least of all on removable media - But making sure you go with a good brand will put you above the rest.


CTO

Beware of cd/dvd rot..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_rot

Your best bet would be a Maxtor Drive Solution. (OneTouch Drives)

http://www.maxtor.com/en/external-dr...al-hard-drive/


CTO

how about a nice hardware or software raid 1?

raid=expensive

dvd=cheap

:D

Hi metguru,

I had this issue during the great Millennium Bug scam :D

Back then, we were using CDs rather than DVDs. I selected Kodak media because there was a requirement for extended archiving properties.

I have just found this:

http://www.aprmedia.co.uk/product.ph...3&r=googlebase

The latest Kodak DVD archival material which is supposed to have a life of 100 years. It is expensive though.............. I would be inclined to check other manufacturers for their archival material. Also, price getting another drive.

The reason I suggest another drive is at least it will allow you to reliably update your backup, and I am wary of rewritable media.

:)

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Originally Posted by C:\Saw

raid=expensive

dvd=cheap

:D

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Wrong.... HDD's are very cheap compared to many years of DVD throwaways. A DVD is like an ancient slow floppy drive to the drives. A raid will check behind the scenes to correct errors. Next time, you burn a CD.....turn the computer off. Do the same with a software raid.

How come students always think they can belittle the teacher?

Good Lord (or shall I say holy evolution)

Egotistical?

If you were a teacher, you would be a poor one in dire need of schooling.

If you want a cheap and easy way of storing some static data you plan to keep for a long time (i'm not talking about incremental backups)

DVD-RW or DVD would be a great choice for almost no $

Linen0ise go fck yourself, I'm not in the mood for your bullshit right now

Go "teach" yourself

He said he is backing up data that does not change

Get it?

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Originally Posted by nihil

The latest Kodak DVD archival material which is supposed to have a life of 100 years. It is expensive though.............. I would be inclined to check other manufacturers for their archival material. Also, price getting another drive.
:)

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Yea, I have thought about that. But realistically, I'm thinking within the next 10 years give or take, I'll be able to copy these disks to a new medium, like blue ray or something not so volatile. Point being, I'm looking for something to last, but it doesn't have to last my entire life.

And yes, C:\Saw is correct, it is static data, so I'll only need to back it up once, and store it in a low humidity low light container I've yet to find. :p

The problem is, there doesn't seem to be any conclusive evidence as to how long disks last (I know this also depends on the manufacturer).

OK, you don't say how much data you have, but I would have thought that a lunchbox would make a suitable storage container?.......... just make sure that it is opaque.

As for life then please look at these:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/techno...cdcaretips.htm

NIST........................... and CLIR:

http://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub121/sec4.html

Basically, if you store them right they should be good for the 10 years or so that you are envisaging. To be sure, just make another set after 5 years? Make sure that you use good quality media, and store them vertically in crystal cases. Do be careful what you write on them with ;)

10 years is a long time in IT hardware and technology terms so I don't think that an additional harddrive is a particularly good solution. I had to "mothball" hardware for my project to make sure that the data would be accessible in 30 years' time.

actually hdd arnt that expensive either, and can hold alot more. especially considering the amount of dvds u might need. also considering the price of a good quality dvd. and even consider the steps needed to store and maintain them, a hdd may be a better choice in that aspect. i got a seagate free agent with 500 gigs for about 89 bucks on sale at bestbuy. it comes with its own backup software, only down fall is it doesnt back up program files only docs and media. just sits on my desk where i can keep an eye on it

i would definately check the pros and cons and compare the cost. in the long run itd also be alot easier to transfer them to some other form of removable media.

Yes, but for static data, optical disks seem to last for a much longer period of time before becoming unusable when treated correctly and stored properly.

true, but im lazy :P

Hmmm interesting topic :)

I agree when you say that cheap ass Dvd's die in 6 months. My music Cd's which are handled everyday in the car get whacked in about 2 months, start jumping etc.

Any decent DVD / CD brands you can recommend?

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Originally Posted by Cider

I agree when you say that cheap ass Dvd's die in 6 months. My music Cd's which are handled everyday in the car get whacked in about 2 months, start jumping etc.

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My car stereo has an AUX in.. My PDA is plugged into that, no more skipping and I can bring a lot more ;)

yeah but ive only seen that in newer cars

Sd - kamaaaan man, I aint that rich.

You talking to average Joe here :P

I actually own two cars, one with aux in, and the other with a tape player. I bought an adapter for the car with a tape player. Its a tape you put in, but it has a wire coming out with a headphone jack, so you can use an ipod or whatever you may want. Costs about 20 USD if I remember correctly.

To get back on topic:

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I agree when you say that cheap ass Dvd's die in 6 months. My music Cd's which are handled everyday in the car get whacked in about 2 months, start jumping etc.

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yes, but if you're using them like that, it really doesn't matter what brand you're using. So what I do is buy those stacks of 100 dvds for like 20 dollars, and I use those for every day use, when I don't care about how long they last. I've also bought Sony, which I assumed were better because they're a name brand and are also more expensive, but you never know. I haven't actually done any testing between the actual quality of the two brands I have.

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Any decent DVD / CD brands you can recommend?

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So, yea, that is a pretty good question, and I also would like to know the answer. haha.

And to answer your question nihil, I have about 500 gigs of data, give or take. But I'm not sure how much of it I'm going to be backing up. Probably most though.

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Originally Posted by Linen0ise go fck yourself, I'm not in the mood for your bullshit right now

Go "teach" yourself

He said he is backing up data that [I

does not change[/I]

Get it?

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You don't understand math either. Dude had 500gigs. People warning him about scratched cd's with that garuanty bull. I just told the dude to find an extra harddrive used or new and make a raid. If either drive fails....no need to backup software, the user wouldn't know his stuff is archived.

Don't be mad at me If I outsmarted you. You maybe looking for a job one day boy

author of this article is spinning wheels. He knows the answer. Just lazy.

If he decides to sit around and burn DVDs all day fine. Don't burn your data at the max speed. hugh? did you think that one? Joe in the mailroom won't be able to read your distro list because he device read no faster than 8x.

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If he decides to sit around and burn DVDs all day fine. Don't burn your data at the max speed. hugh? did you think that one? Joe in the mailroom won't be able to read your distro list because he device read no faster than 8x.

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Now, that is a very interesting concept that you have just introduced LinenOise.

Compatibility is a key issue.............. hell, I had to get my brother-in-law in Alabama trace some 1-4x CDs and send them to me, so they would work on an old burner............ the locally bought 4-8 media wouldn't work.

That is why I mentioned that with my project I had to mothball compatible hardware as well.

Linen0ise:

Whois doesn't tell all ;)

People like you keep people like me from wanting to join this forum--you all wonder why nobody joins

OK, genius--keep your own little private forum all to yourself; after all, it is yours


******* :booty:

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Originally Posted by Linen0ise

If he decides to sit around and burn DVDs all day fine. Don't burn your data at the max speed. hugh? did you think that one? Joe in the mailroom won't be able to read your distro list because he device read no faster than 8x.

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Compatibility isn't an issue. I'm archiving the data for the future, meaning I will never use archaic hardware to restore the data. Secondly, I probably won't backup all of the data, as yes, it will take a lot of time to burn it all. I specifically want to use a medium for keeping data that I can store properly in a closet and be fairly sure I'll be able to read in the somewhat distant future. Hard drives seem to be more volatile, and for data that I'm not changing over time, it is a valid option to go with optical media. I don't understand why you're so against this discussion.

Hi metguru,

I think that I understand your requirement, and would agree that optical media is currently your best option, given the data volume that you are describing.

So long as you buy good quality media and store it properly, you should be OK for well over 10 years. I only mentioned specialist archival material because I was not initially sure of what you had in mind. It is obviously overkill in this situation, and way too expensive.

The alternative would be to use another hard drive, but, if it is to be used as a backup, then it must be external. This would be either a USB drive in its own case or a removable drive in its own caddy.

Basically, hard drives are electro-mechanical, so you have three possible failure vectors:

1. The electronics.
2. The motor and R/W heads.
3. The platters.

With optical media you only have to worry about deterioration, which would typically be caused by oxidation and ultraviolet radiation.

On the other hand, it is generally much quicker to store to a hard drive or solid state than it is to burn optical media.

DO NOT use RAID for archiving or backup; it is intended for neither.

The purpose of RAID is to provide processing continuity in the event of drive failure. Data archives and backups should always be stored remotely.

Trust me, I have seen several catastrophic electronic events that killed multiple drives at the same time.
:zap:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metguru

Hey everyone, I've come to the realization that I probably need to start backing up my hard drive before it dies.

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I'm picking on you cause I am laughing at you. You know what you want and need. what? what's the best shoebox to put them in?

Other dude recommended a usb external drive for backup. However dude is against Raid devices. That's something McCain would say! why he lost.

I'm LoL cause you still spinning your wheels.

Hmmm,

Hard to tell where to start here? OK, English Language Comprehension 101:

1. "Static" = doesn't move, doesn't change
2. "Dynamic" = regularly moves and changes on an ongoing basis.

The raison d'etre of RAID arrays 101:

1. The dynamic provision of processing continuity and thereby, business continuity, in the event of hard drive failure.

Principles of secure data storage 101:

1. Backup your data regularly.
2. Check that your backups work.
3. Make more than one backup.
4. Store at least one copy in a remote location and have one copy onsite for rapid restores.
5. DO NOT store backups on the same hardware as the data that are being backed up (other than if the copy is purely for rapid recovery)

RAID1 is patently unsuitable for backups or archiving. Sure, it stores a copy of the data which it dynamically updates in realtime, but that is purely coincidental to its real purpose of allowing processing continuity.

Just think about it folks: why take the performance hit of RAID1 when your data backup requirement is for static data?:rolleyes: RAID1 will affect everything you do.

Also, just consider what happens at your corporation, business, institution or whatever. You make backups and store them securely, and offline (I sincerely hope!).

"Archiving" is a total no brainer if you understand the meaning of the word in the English language. It refers to data that you no longer require instant access to, and should be stored offline in a less costly fashion?

I have seen far too many RAID1 and non-RAID twin HDD devices where both drives have been creamed by the same event, to think otherwise.

So, are all the professionally run outfits wrong and LinenOise right?.......... I don't think so :D

@LinenOise:

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Other dude recommended a usb external drive for backup. However dude is against Raid devices. That's something McCain would say! why he lost.

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To avoid looking even more foolish I would strongly recommend that you read other people's posts more carefully before reacting (I cannot credit your post with the merit of a "response")

What I said was:

Quote:

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The alternative would be to use another hard drive, but, if it is to be used as a backup, then it must be external. This would be either a USB drive in its own case or a removable drive in its own caddy.

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I even emphasised the external factor for ease of comprehension.........apparently I failed :( At no point did I "recommend" anything; I merely suggested alternative strategies.

I prefer harddisks for backup. They are not so expensive nowadays and I feel safer with them.

what they don't tell you about the raid game. I can backup an entire hDD in 6 minutes. That's with the raid recovery feature I can activate at will. If I ever decided to clone my computer, I can remove the HDD without shutting down the computer. The magical part happens when I put said SATA drive into a mortal machine all data is there. Put said HDD back into workstation, I have the reprecated data.

This is why antionline is corp. shlt. People post to increase their post counts.... not their intelligence. You can read text books all you want but welcome to the real world. Heck, you can even backup stolen data to a mp3 device.

I would fire you for wasting 12 minutes each on some flacky DVD in a 8hr day

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I would fire you for wasting 12 minutes each on some flacky DVD in a 8hr day

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Really? perhaps you should learn to read and comprehend first? the OP clearly stated that this was:

1. A one off requirement.
2. For static data only.

There was no mention that this is a commercial requirement, on the other hand, the implication is that the need is a private, domestic one.

Also, DVDs are no more likely to be flaky (flack is WWII antiaircraft fire;))
than a hard drive. Basically you get what you pay for and are lucky enough to receive. At least with a DVD it generally either works first time and for many times afterwards, or it does not work at all. Hard drives can fail catastrophically, without warning, and at any time.

I won't even bother to insult the intelligence of professionals by commenting on relying on a RAID array as an archive or security backup............ RAID needs to be backed up just like anything else.

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Originally Posted by nihil

Really? perhaps you should learn to read and comprehend first?

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Ha ha. I commend you for your diligence on this topic, but I don't think he's worth your time.