A side from wheather it is legal or illegal to port scan. Isn't there a way to connect to a remote box and run the port scanner from that copromised location. This would be an ideal situation because you are not running anything from your IP. I realize though that through a little investigation this could still all be linked right back to your location.
February 3rd, 2002, 05:09 PM
good post zion.
my comments are by no means complete but a sampling -
it is wrong -
If you a breaking into a computer system (or computing resource host) without proper authorization.
If you are stealing information.
If you are altering information without proper authorization.
If you are trying to damage equipment or its processes.
It is not wrong -
If you are not doing something illegal or the above, but rather learning or helping soemone else to .
If you HAVE the proper authority and testing etnry, security, etc.
February 3rd, 2002, 05:29 PM
It's a very fine line between the legal and the illegal and different things appear legal/illegal to different people. So how do you know if port scans or other things are ok to do? As long as the internet is not under control by any one body (which would be a very bad thing, anyway) we'll never know if it's right or not. Ideally, the internet would be based on an honor code, but too many people abuse that. And then the government cracks down on the abusers and makes thing bad for everyone in general. It's just a vicious cycle that screws everyone.
I don't think most of that made sense, but whatever. I hate not being able to explain my thoughts clearly!
February 3rd, 2002, 05:53 PM
First off I am not a lawyer or law expert of any kind. However they way I understand it from the security classes I have taken, the law is broken when information is changed without effective consent from the owner. However like any law it varies from place to place. Now this is pretty vague but it will continue to be this way until either law makers become more computer savvy or, (and this would be better) legit security personal get some law degrees and get some power. Gotta change the system from the inside. This is just my two cents worth.
February 3rd, 2002, 06:05 PM
OK... so we all have ideas on what we can and can't do.
But what about the other part of zions question. How much information should a server be allowed to take from you? ip address, fine. computer name, browser, email address how far can they dig into you personal information.
When i walk into a store and go to buy something, and they ask for personal information in order for me to make a purchase... in cash, i refuse, demand to see a manager, remind him that his store is open to the general public and that he must sell his products to anyone who wants them, if the choose to remain anonymous or not. They usuall ask me to make up an address...im giving you cash i want that product period.
So, because most people arn't aware that servers are taking information from them does this mean we should allow it?
Its not ok to see what services they have running, but it ok for them to record anything they can get their hands on?
i think thats pretty Fµ¢K€Ð up
February 3rd, 2002, 07:22 PM
true, it seems like the corporations run the government these days.
Everything the government desides (I'm talking about the U.S. gov here) seems to benefit the big fat rich corporations... I'm getting the feeling that every decission today is controlled by cold hard cash, not moral or ethics, not even common sence...
I've been using many different spyware detectors the last year and the results I got were very scary... All major websites i visited did more than just create cookies. They pinged, DNS'ed, scanned... hell some even tried to trace my bloody IP....
and yes, we know this but think about all those normal folks out there who just use the Internet like they use their TV, microwave, etc... Many even feel it's nice to get spam-mailed!!! (this isn't a lie, I've actually met these kinda ppl)...
But is it legal? I would say no... Just like it shouldn't be legal for stores to keep records of their customers just so they can analyse them and figure out their every interest...
WE R NOT TEST-BUNNIES!!! THIS ISN'T A TEST-LAB!!!
well, u know what I mean :D
February 3rd, 2002, 09:32 PM
So I'm not the only one who does that at radio shack etc.
zion - while that is true, I'm going to suggest that all gov't are beholden to big corporate interests
February 3rd, 2002, 09:50 PM
Put it this way the people with the money I.E. major websites and corporations can do whatever they please. To me this is pretty ****ed up. It has always been this way. It's pretty screwed up to that they can take information about you but you can't portscan them without them getting pissed? What is this world coming to. Why are computer criminals being labeled as terrorists? They don't strike fear into the hearts of the common public and they don't kill tons of people either. My opinion is it's all too screwed up to even debate about. Someone needs to do something but who can? Just my little 2 cents.
February 3rd, 2002, 10:16 PM
hmm, i agree with Shangrila! no, it's not fair. but, i guess we'll have to get
over it. i don't think it would be wrong if you use portscanners for security reasons.
i wonder, what would they do if you portscan them and tell them of any security flaws? would
they get pissed then?:)
February 3rd, 2002, 10:24 PM
Put it this way the people with the money I.E. major websites and corporations can do whatever they please
They do whatever they can get away with. if enough people start complaining, and keep complaining the government will put a stop to it, although id rather see the net self regulated.
Politicians will do anything for the vote, if they think they'll gain/loose votes they'll act accordingly. if no noise is made the corp mach wins. web-sites need backers, if enough people write to the sponsers and tell them you can never buy their products as long as their supporting (whatever), and stand behind their threats it'll stop.
So I'm not the only one who does that at radio shack etc.
yeah RS, its amazing, they don't know what to do. aahhh, the batteries are over there. I have a radio shack card, but unless im asking them for credit, they have no right.
kmart tried it for a while too. what a cluster Fµ¢K up that turned into.