November 5th, 2001, 07:20 PM
Microsoft eliminating Opera (news)
Opera still mistrusts Microsoft on MSN browser lockout
INTERNET BROWSER COMPANY Opera Software ASA is still not satisfied with Microsoft Corp.'s promises to grant Opera users full access to the MSN.com Web portal.
The software giant claimed it was repairing a technical glitch that prevented users of Opera, Mozilla, and other browsers from accessing MSN.com.
But Opera Chief Executive Officer (CEO) Jon von Tetzchner said there was no technical glitch, but rather a deliberate Microsoft strategy to handicap his company.
Microsoft could not be immediately reached for comment.
MSN.com deliberately blocked access to users whose browsers identified themselves with the string of characters "Opera," Von Tetzchner said in a telephone interview. By simply changing one letter, sending the string "Opra," for example, they could gain access. That suggests that Microsoft had put Opera on a "black list," he said.
While he acknowledged that Microsoft has since corrected the situation, he pointed out that as recently as Thursday some parts of MSN.com -- such as the Carpoint.com automotive site -- were still inaccessible to Opera users.
He further rejected Microsoft's assertion that Opera and Mozilla do not adequately support the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) standard XHTML (Extensible Hypertext Markup Language). Once Opera users are granted access to MSN.com, XHTML pages render "just fine," said Von Tetzchner.
He accused Microsoft of trying to use strong-arm tactics to disadvantage his company, suggesting Redmond has designs on one of Opera's chief markets.
"We have been making significant deals in the Internet device market, and (Microsoft chief) Bill Gates has been on record saying the Internet device market will dwarf the PC market in a few years. Microsoft wants that market, so in essence they're trying to use their power in the PC market to gain dominance there," he said.
Opera recently signed a deal to provide browser software for set-top boxes, a major breakthrough for the Norwegian company, which offers free desktop browsers but hopes to make its main profit from smaller Internet devices.
November 5th, 2001, 07:30 PM
ok, not to bash on oper (i personally, haven't used, i'm fine with ie 5.5) but why don't they just make a patch for it. i know what the answer might be "we don't want to get pushed around by big brother microsoft." (some people might not use big brother but i'm using it because i belive that microsoft is a big brother in the fact that they are watching us and know what we are doing.) well my answer is that "hey, get over yourselfs, you can't have everything your way." and yes, i know the internet should be a free enterprise, that everyone should get to see all public sites, no matter what the browser they use. i hope i made sense. what do the rest of you think?
Do it now and ask for forgiveness later
November 5th, 2001, 07:40 PM
If your browser opens an url, it sends its name (the browsers name), along with some versioning information.
What MSN is accused of doing, is looking at those names, and sending back a reply "Hey, you can't see this page because you're using Opera." Remember, when Opera-engineers changed Opera's ID to Opra, Microsoft -did- return the requested page.
This makes it look like Microsoft is filtering some browsers names, and denieng those names access to MSN.
If you would have to patch this, you would have to change the name you send to the server, you would have to change your products ID. Why would you do that? It's not even a bug.
Compare it to this: I have a fancy disco/pub/cinema, and you want to get in. I tell you, that because your name is Havenger, you can't get in. That makes no sence, does it?
November 5th, 2001, 07:50 PM
well first of all, i would like to thank you Guss, for responding. what i meant was something that could change it's id or. like you said you wouldn't let me in becasue my name is Havanger. well then i would come back with a new id that said BloBerFac3d. but the problem is that then after a while you might catch me and then not allow anyone with the id of Havanger and BloBerfac3d. so really, i have no solution, other than for microsoft to get their thumbs out of their butts and let other people see their sheeot (pronounced She-ot).
Do it now and ask for forgiveness later
November 5th, 2001, 08:00 PM
Actually, my point was, why whould I deny you access only because your name happens to be Havenger? Opera, or any other company for that matter, shouldn't have to change their names!
If Microsoft denied all access except for their own browsers, that would be another story. But here, they singled-out a few names. That's ridicolous.
November 5th, 2001, 08:09 PM
It's time for Microsoft to let go of alot of their products, I mean to the full, giving away source code, everything they have. The have had there fun. There are now crippling other technologys that could end up giving us a big boost. Microsoft should retire and step off the playing field. That's what I think.
November 5th, 2001, 08:17 PM
From the communities point of view, yeah, I think it would be best if Microsoft should split up in a couple of different companies.
From Microsoft's point of view... well, they would be idiots to do so
November 5th, 2001, 09:07 PM
Yeah, I heard about this... I have to say I am really disgusted with Microsoft and their policies. I mean, it wasn't even just making code that would only work with IE, but actually adding a whole new server response in order to block Opera users. This kind of thing should get them really blasted, their seeming arrogance at trying to slip this by really pisses me off. (<---Opera and IE5 User)
[HvC]Terr: L33T Technical Proficiency
November 5th, 2001, 09:17 PM
I read about this someplace else (TechRepublic or linux.org, I can't remember which) M$ was blocking more than just Opera. They were also blocking Netscape, Mozilla, as well as others that they claimed "don't render XHTML as per the standards." I think they are just trying to lock users into using IE.
Warfare is the Way of deception.
-Sun Tzu \"The Art of War\"
November 5th, 2001, 09:59 PM
They are trying to monoplize the internet websites. Sooner or later they will block any user who isn't using IE or at least take them to a download site, also it's another way to make sure that IE ships with everything that requires downloads from there site. This includes services packs, games, anything they make that could access the internet. With so many flaws for Microsoft to monitor your activity using IE it's just amazing.
This is brilliant the way they think is so unreal that most people would not believe it. What they are doing is unreal and not justifyied by anymeans.