privacy for foriegners
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: privacy for foriegners

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    107

    privacy for foriegners

    With the new anti-terrorism laws, foriegn computer users are being affected too. Let's say a person in Norway wanted to send a pornographic picture to a person in Sweden. Since the picture probably passes through the United States, it can be screened and monitored and if the picture is one that is illegal in the United States, that person in Norway can be charged and arrested.

    Also, at airports face scanners are being used to search for terrorists. This amounts to illegal search and possibly seizure. I know they used them at last year's Super Bowl without consent or probable cause.

    The government has gotten too out of hand under the mask of "justice". It is a shame that while we are supposedly gaining freedom for Afghanistan while our own country is becomming more like a police state.
    Share on Google+

  2. #2
    Hi mom!
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,103
    I disagree with you there - If someone sends a picture from Norway to Sweden, and it passes the US, I don't think the sender could be blamed for sending his picture over American infrastructure, as the average user doesn't know which paths his packets take. Of course, if (s)he's sending US-copyrighted pictures, the US can start a lawsuit against him/her, but Norway would have to deliver the person to the US first. Furthermore, chances are small you get convicted for a crime you didn't know you were committing, you'd probably get off with a slap on the wrist, or just a warning.

    Then again, the way law is upheld in the US continues to amaze me occasionally.

    I do share some of your concerns however: The Bush-administration seems to be placing their hunt for terrorists, or the war against terrorism, as it is called, above the individual rights on occasion. I'm not sure what to think about that, but I do think this could be dangerous. Then again, the american public has been know to correct their leaders where and if neccesairy, so I'm not that pessimistic...
    Share on Google+

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    472

    Re: privacy for foriegners

    Originally posted by owen76
    that person in Norway can be charged and arrested.
    I don't think any european country would surrender one of their citizens on the basis of American legal framework, if it contradicts that countries laws.

    But I believe that also in the EU, they are gathering to make a joint legal framework for computer issues. They're gonna have a tought time, though. One of the main problems is that the techology is accelerating so fast, that laws become old the minute their adopted. Example: In my country, one of main goals for police' computer department is to point out for the politicians new issues that may (or already has) become a criminal issue. Then it's for the politicians to make a new law. But making new laws is time consuming, and when they hit the steets, a bunch of new issues have arised.....
    ---
    proactive
    Share on Google+

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    472

    Re: privacy for foriegners

    Originally posted by owen76
    Since the picture probably passes through the United States, it can be screened and monitored
    If this became a huge problem, there are ways to strictly route traffic. It's defined in the IP-headers 'option'-field.
    ---
    proactive
    Share on Google+

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    429

    Re: privacy for foriegners

    Originally posted by owen76
    Also, at airports face scanners are being used to search for terrorists. This amounts to illegal search and possibly seizure. I know they used them at last year's Super Bowl without consent or probable cause.
    The Facial scanners aren't all they're cracked up to be.
    about 1 in 10 scans are false positives which would easily lead to more annoyance then anything else.

    I'm guessing that most terrorists aren't going to provide recent mug shots of themselves.

    Those two problems alone amount to this technology being a large dose of smoke & mirrors with a good measure of FUD.

    J.
    Share on Google+

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Yes
    Posts
    4,429
    With the new anti-terrorism laws, foriegn computer users are being affected too. Let's say a person in Norway wanted to send a pornographic picture to a person in Sweden. Since the picture probably passes through the United States, it can be screened and monitored and if the picture is one that is illegal in the United States, that person in Norway can be charged and arrested.
    I don't think that Norwegian person can be charged and arrested: USA law doesn't apply in Norway. Let's say some Norwegian hacks an American server. If hacking would be legal in Norway (it isn't), there's nothing the US can do about that. They can ASK Norway to turn over the suspect, but they can't FORCE Norway to do that (unless they do it the Afghan way of course). Back to the porno pic: if it involves children i.e., US authorities will probably ask Norway's co-operation. Since there's no crime commited against an American citizen, they can't and won't ask Norway to turn over the suspect. Instead, the suspect will be judged under Norwegian law. If the abused children are American, the US will ask Norway to turn over the suspect. Most European countries have legal agreements with the US, and will turn over the suspect. If, let's say, the abused children are TEXAN however, Norway WON'T turn over the suspect, because of the still-existing capital punishment.
    Share on Google+

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Yes
    Posts
    4,429
    Originally posted by proactive
    If this became a huge problem, there are ways to strictly route traffic. It's defined in the IP-headers 'option'-field.
    Reminds me of the Yahoo auctions of Nazi memorabilia.

    The E-Commerce Times, August 14, 2000
    The sale of the Nazi items is legal in the United States because it is protected by the "freedom of expression" mandates of the Constitution. French law, however, prohibits the sale or exhibition of objects with racist overtones, so the Nazi items do not appear on the French Yahoo! site. However, visitors to the French site can click into the English-language Yahoo! site where the Nazi objects are available.

    Judge Gomez ruled earlier that Yahoo!'s display of Nazi artifacts in France violated the law and was "an offense against the collective memory of a country profoundly wounded by the atrocities committed by and in the name of the Nazi criminal enterprise."

    (...)

    Whether it is possible to implement technology that will block French access to the U.S. Yahoo! site remains to be seen. Independent Internet security experts have noted that such filtering is almost impossible because PC dialing numbers used to identify the Internet user can be disguised or even misread.
    Share on Google+

  8. #8
    Hi mom!
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,103
    Although I agree with you completely, Negative, don't forget about that case where two russians where lured into the US, and got arrested upon arrival. JP had a front page article about the story...
    Share on Google+

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    293

    Thumbs up

    yes it's true.... the governments r really making it harder to preserve what's left of our privacy... but if any1 ever gets busted and the only proof the police have is something they've gotten in an illegal fashion then they can't really use it... because if they do then their ass is on the line too, and u have to be a hell of a criminal before e.g. the feds r gonna let themselves be humiliated more than they already r.... we have to fight back and make sure it never gets legal, that's all we can do. and I'm sorry to say that if we lose this fight then we lose all of our privacy... we're never gonna be able to restore such a loss...

    but i have to agree with that US laws doesn't apply outside of USA... they easily could though, it's just a question about making the EU agree that they should, but i don't think that any EU politician wants that to happen (and especially not any EU citizen).
    zion1459
    Visit: http://www.cpc-net.org
    \"Software is like sex: it\'s better when it\'s free.\" -Linus Torvalds
    Share on Google+

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

 Security News

     Patches

       Security Trends

         How-To

           Buying Guides