A new view on the script kiddie issue.
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Thread: A new view on the script kiddie issue.

  1. #1
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    A new view on the script kiddie issue.

    The jargon file[1] describes the script kiddie as "The lowest form of cracker; [one who does ] mischief with scripts and programs written by others, often without understanding the exploit they are using." While this in itself may be accurate, I do not like the present usage of this terminology.

    You may be asking yourself why I would make such controversial claims in a forum that prides itself on developing skills and furthering knowledge in hopes of elevating one to hackerdom. My reasoning is that being a "script kiddie" is simply a phase in one's "education". One is not born with a deep understanding of programming and computer security, it takes patience, time and motivation to develop those skills.

    Keeping this in mind, it's absolutely natural to use other people's code when you're just starting out. In fact, I'd recommend it. Use it. Understand it. Learn from it. Improve it. I think it's merely in a step in a long walk toward a distant goal. Ask any generally acknowledged "hacker" and most of them will readily admit to both cracking into systems and using other people's code. [2] They did this and later learned from it, progressing from their script kiddie stage. I see this as a natural progression, not something to be avoided or downplayed. Those who have progressed beyond this initial stage should guide the less advanced into higher levels of competence [3], not cry foul and dismiss their antics!

    [1] - http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/ht...t-kiddies.html

    [2] - I am here using the term "hacker" in the modern, computer security sense. Do not flame me for this simple fact, please.

    [3] - The standard post would comment on making sure one includes a fair dose of "ethical" education as well.. I agree but don't think this is necessarily needed to become a hacker. Hackers come in all shades of grey.

    Ideas? Comments?
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  2. #2
    It's not how they learn it's what they do with it.
    If they even decided to learn and go that far. Lets break this down.

    My reasoning is that being a "script kiddie" is simply a phase in one's "education".
    I don't think it's a phase I think of it as more of being lazy.

    . Ask any generally acknowledged "hacker" and most of them will readily admit to both cracking into systems and using other people's code.
    If you ask any generally acknowledged "hacker" of there illegal activities, are you sure there going to open admit to using programs and doing somthing illegal. That to me sounds like a skript Kiddie move.

    Keeping this in mind, it's absolutely natural to use other people's code when you're just starting out
    It's not natural infact it's illegal, and stealing if you don't have rights to us it , as a programmer I would be pissed off if I had software or code that I didn't want out or didn't want someone to have.

    I still don't get it am I supposed to be sympathetic now because of this thread. Skript Kiddies will always suck. Some of your reasons are also correct but it doesn't excuse there actions.
    I hate the srummy little terds!
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  3. #3
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    If you ask any generally acknowledged "hacker" of there illegal activities, are you sure there going to open admit to using programs and doing somthing illegal. That to me sounds like a skript Kiddie move.
    This was truly more of a hypothetical situation. I assumed you would have taken it as such. I don't go around enquiring about people's pasts, that's not the point. Allow me to rephrase it in hopes of being slightly clearer to some:

    "Would we be able to acquire some betazoids, or any run the of the mill telepaths, and peer into a hacker's thoughts and past experiences, we may.."


    It's not natural infact it's illegal, and stealing if you don't have rights to us it , as a programmer I would be pissed off if I had software or code that I didn't want out or didn't want someone to have.
    You are once again misinterpretating what I said. Obviously, my comment only applied to code that was freely 'out there'. Open source, etc. If you're a programmer and prefer to keep your source code hidden from view, I think it's rather doubtful a script kiddie will reverse engineer your ware and abuse whatever code he acquires in his search.

    I still don't get it am I supposed to be sympathetic now because of this thread.
    I didn't ask for your sympathy, I merely hoped to start a discussion and possibly offer a different perspective on a tired out issue. If the exchange of knowledge and ideas is supposively what this culture cherishes the very most, then I would think you would be thanking me for starting this thread and not questioning the relevance of its very existence.
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  4. #4
    Old-Fogey:Addicts founder Terr's Avatar
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    I prefer to think of a script kiddie as...

    They just cruise around looking for the latest premade exploits, and collecting them if they happen to work for them. In an earlier stage they go looking for an A-B-C guide to getting into Hotmail or something. In advanced stages they learn to compile things.

    But an overriding characteristic is the idea that it must already be out there, and that just knowing it (an exploit someone else made) exists and having it is a way to increase their self-value, and that if it can't be done quickly, it isn't interesting. In other words, a low tolerance for 'hard work'... Although that is not always true, if they have an overriding feeling for vengeance or to right actual or percieved wrongs.
    [HvC]Terr: L33T Technical Proficiency
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  5. #5
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    i have to say that i agree with freeon. it is not a stage in education. it is more of a lifestyle choice. i mean... you can decide to do drugs or you can decide to not do drugs. you can decide to be good or bad. you can decide whether or not you want to smoke. everything is a lifestyle choice.... including this. you can decide whether you want to learn to be a "white hat" hacker or a lazy and malicious script kiddie. you don't have to start as a script kiddie. i know many newbies who start out not as script kiddies, but start with a hunger to learn. they don't start out punting people and running sub-7. that is not a requirement.... it is a choice
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    I believe there is confusion as to what the term script kiddie means and implies. The description I noted was very generalized. My contention is that the learning process generally goes from:

    (1) newbie --> (2) script kiddie --> (3) hacker

    Now, I do realize that this is a highly simplified description, so please bear with me.

    1) The stage when you are initially interested. You get your hands on all you can read and try to figure out what this is all about. You wander with little direction and frequently seek guidance from more experience people. There is very little 'doing' in this stage, and very much reading. You lack the necessary skill and knowledge to really delve into anything in great depths. Compare this to the early ages of childhood if you like, exploring the world with wide-open eyes, in awe.

    2) The knowledge you acquired is now starting to come into place. Various concepts are coming together, allowing you a better view of how things really are. You start specializing in certain areas that interest you most. You now hold the limited amount of skill that will allow you to test the grounds. An understanding of why and how things work come about and give you a new perspective on old thoughts. Gradually, you tentatively start developing your own rustic tools and ideas. You feel as though you "finally get it", though you have only just begun to scratch the surface. It's useful to compare this stage to that of your teenager years. Unsure of yourself, you slowly dip your foot into the cold water, hoping it warms up as time passes by.

    3) The trial and error you experienced in stage 2 is finally starting to pay off. You're now equipped with highly detailed knowledge of whatever had the gaul of touching your fancy. You are capable of adapting to novel situations by aptly applying past knowledge. You are wise and spend your days compounding upon what you know in hopes of expanding your abilities. You feel as though the possibilities are boundless! All that stops you is the limited amounts of digits on your clock and other pesky though necessary life chores. Ah, you have now reached the stage of adulthood, maturity.


    Script kiddies are not necessarily malicious. They are not necessarily dumb or lazy. It's simply a stage in developmental growth. Sure, there are some who make complete asses of themselves, and others who will not bother doing anything if it requires reading or doing anything more than pushing a few GUI buttons, but remember: do not stereotype all "script kiddies" as such, at least not the ones defined with the definition I pulled from the jargon file.
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  7. #7
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    Originally posted by autumn regret
    I believe there is confusion as to what the term script kiddie means and implies. The description I noted was very generalized. My contention is that the learning process generally goes from:



    (1) newbie --> (2) script kiddie --> (3) hacker



    Now, I do realize that this is a highly simplified description, so please bear with me.



    1) The stage when you are initially interested. You get your hands on all you can read and try to figure out what this is all about. You wander with little direction and frequently seek guidance from more experience people. There is very little 'doing' in this stage, and very much reading. You lack the necessary skill and knowledge to really delve into anything in great depths. Compare this to the early ages of childhood if you like, exploring the world with wide-open eyes, in awe.

    I disagree. Script kiddies generally show apathy when it comes to learning stuff. You're describing the newbie phase as well past the 'script kiddie' phase. A script kiddie, in my view, must undergo massive change in order to really become a hacker. A hacker is a hacker, whether they know how to program or just simply change their desktop wallpaper. As I see it, being a hacker is a type of person, not a phase of education.

    Script kiddies are not necessarily malicious. They are not necessarily dumb or lazy. It's simply a stage in developmental growth. Sure, there are some who make complete asses of themselves, and others who will not bother doing anything if it requires reading or doing anything more than pushing a few GUI buttons, but remember: do not stereotype all "script kiddies" as such, at least not the ones defined with the definition I pulled from the jargon file.
    You're describing a newbie hacker when you say that they're not malicious, and that they are just learning. The difference between a newbie hacker and a script kiddie (again as I see it) is the difference between a lack of knowledge and ignorance. One is simply not knowing but learning, the other is choosing to not know.

    Perhaps you should re-examine what you wrote:
    My reasoning is that being a "script kiddie" is simply a phase in one's "education". One is not born with a deep understanding of programming and computer security, it takes patience, time and motivation to develop those skills.
    This statement makes the presumption that script kiddies are capable of being motivated to learn. I would venture that 99% of the time that this is false. Script kiddies just want to click the button and have it work, with little or no need to understand why or how it works.

    That, as I see it, is the difference between a newbie hacker and a script kiddie. A newbie hacker picks up a canned app, examines it, tries to research what it does, then tries it him/herself, without the use of an application -- all in an effort to learn.
    Chris Shepherd
    The Nelson-Shepherd cutoff: The point at which you realise someone is an idiot while trying to help them.
    \"Well as far as the spelling, I speak fluently both your native languages. Do you even can try spell mine ?\" -- Failed Insult
    Is your whole family retarded, or did they just catch it from you?
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  8. #8
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    Script kiddie is not to be considered a fase in education.
    All they want is damage and to be able to brag about it. They don't know **** about computer security. Like I said in previous posts, they don't want to know how it works, they want to run scripts they didn't write or programs.
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  9. #9
    sebastos12
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    I know some script kiddie and they told me that they want to find out how the scripts work and one of them to explor the systems. Personally i think that you should make your own tools because the most of the script are in internet don't work.
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  10. #10
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    Question

    Is it possible that newbies become script kiddies because some people are too *cough* 1337 to help them out with their questions?
    Posting questions and then getting flamed without finding out the reason can be very frustrating. Not saying that it happens here or anything..
    Dear Santa, I liked the mp3 player I got but next christmas I want a SA-7 surface to air missile
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