On demand of Ennis

[VictorKaum]

A lot of people doesn't take these sort of things ligthly. In most cases they are even in their right to have such an opinion

[sonic_overload]

a hacker, cracker, trespasser are all the same no matter if you destroy anything or steal something all the same it's the fact that you have crossed a line owned by someone else no matter if we may not agree with everything they do (i.e. carnovor, cia, nsa, fbi, ect...). They make the laws and they make it illegal for hackers to hack and crackers to crack. saying hacking is just finding problems for system admin is stupid because your exploting their weaknesses as well as other crackers would you just tell them about them if you want to fix problems apply for a job

[VictorKaum]

There is no Job telling about every1s weakness. You could help 1 firm and the others. Why couldn't hackers stay independent?

[sonic_overload]

not one job but i'm pretty sure there more than one hacker in the world more that the businesses i'm just saying hacking is illegal even when you hack and then email them telling them that they been hacked and telling them how to fix it.

[ThePreacher]

a hacker, cracker, trespasser are all the same no matter if you destroy anything or steal something all the same it's the fact that you have crossed a line owned by someone else no matter if we may not agree with everything they do (i.e. carnovor, cia, nsa, fbi, ect...).

sonic_overload, you are once again confusing the term hacker and cracker. They are not the same because the hacker is one who tests on their own network, or networks they have permissions on to find security holes and make solutions. A cracker illegally accesses others networks sometimes just for personal gain. A real hacker cant be the same as a trespasser because they have permission to do what they do. After finding holes they warn others with similar networks of the problems they found and everyone benefits. This mixing up of the terms is what causes people to have a negative view on those of us who call themselves hackers. This is another reason why I tell people that I am a network security student, not a hacker.

[tekfrost]

Lowering myself? I really don't see how expressing my humbles views on a topic is lower myself in any way, shape, or form but eh,

Don't misunderstand me friends. I love a good debate and with this topic I felt I would express my views. I think that Victor Ennis and ThePreacher had some good points, I just don't readily agree with all of them. I think that by often switching roles of white hat or black hat we loose the distinction, at least to some degree.

[VictorKaum]

"With lowering yourself tekfrost" I doesn't mean that you lower yourself while ventilating your opinion.

I mean that when someone who is a hacker (in my sense of the word see other posts) and is recognized by the others as hacker pejorativly, so as a cracker he should be humiliated and react in some way. If he / she doesn't react then he / she seems to have a lack of self-respect.

Or: if you make yourself a worm you couldn't complain that others step on you.

thus make the difference beware of the worms

[sonic_overload]

no i know the diffrence between a hacker and cracker but they come from the same family a hacker would just hack a place snoop around and tell the sysem admin that they broke in and how they could fix the problem a cracker takes it one more step but destroying or stealing information for money, fame, or sick perversion what ever they have the same root as the all have to hack in the first place

[Pooh-Bear]

So it´s out of the question to sugest that there are people that cross the border between white and black hat?

[VictorKaum]

difference between hackers and crackers
http://www.projectgamma.com/news/edi...ackcrack.shtml
http://www.ladysharrow.ndirect.co.uk...d_crackers.htm
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/2000/13/ns-14629.html
Moral issues
http://www.stedwards.edu/newc/capstone/sp2000/hackers/
The media and the public give a negative connotation to the term “hacker”
http://www.lemis.com/hacker.html
Hackers have only been viewed as evil criminals for about the last ten years, now termed "crackers" to differentiate them from harmless hackers
http://www.hackerz.org/.
Hacker History
http://www.thefuturesite.com/catman/history/index.html
A Brief History of Hackerdom
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opens...k/raymond.html
Hackers Deface 2 More Government Web Sites
http://www.dallasnews.com/national/0601nat8hack.htm
No Suspects in Cyberattacks
http://www.mercurycenter.com/svtech/...hack031000.htm
Hack Attack
- interview of former hackers and security experts
http://www.forbes.com/asap/6396/hack.htm
The Hacker Crackdown
http://www.eff.org/papers/hacker_crackdown/crack.html
Can the Law Keep Up with a New Generation of Cyberspace Hackers?
http://wings.buffalo.edu/Complaw/Com...s/scalion.html
Sub-Topic 1: What is the law on hacking?
The Computer Security Act of 1987
http://www.aenigma.net/resources/csa_87.htm or
http://epic.org/crypto/csa/
Computer Security Enhancement Act of 1997
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1997_rpt/h105_243.htm
Section-by-section summary of H.R. 1903: Computer Security
Enhancement Act of 1997
http://www.house.gov/science/hr1903.html
Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section of the Department of Justice
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/
U.S. Code on Fraud and Related Activity in Connection with Computers
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1030.text.html
A list of acts, laws, and executive orders relating to computer security
http://www.p-and-e.com/pubs_laws.htm
http://web.syr.edu/~purwinto/comlaw.txt
Laws and Crimes Statistics
http://www.blkbox.com/~guillory/comp4.html

So that's a lot of stuff but it sure gives an impresion on hacker ethics.

There is a difference between hackers and crackers