December 8th, 2001, 07:19 PM
The new counter terrorism bill signed by Bush this past month or so is an atrocity. By signing the bill he not only lets the government compromise your rights as citizens; as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, he also has instated the ability for the military to hold tribunals that can make decisions dealing with terrorism without the knowledge of any person(s) not involved. The congress has no power over what happens at the tribunals and by doing this congress has destroyed the delicate balance in the government.
The new bill gives the federal government abilities, which not only infringe on your Constitutional rights as a citizen of the United States of America, it goes against what we stand for as a country. The founding fathers of the United States created the Constitution to guarantee everyone had an equal rights. They did this because of the repressive rule of the British monarchy, and unfair trials, and lack or civil rights.
The first example that the bill is unconstitutional is that the federal government under this bill is given unlimited wire-tapping and other surveillance capabilities, which infringe on your right as a citizen. The fourth amendment clearly states: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. ‘This amendment protects the rights of the accused. Capitol crimes are those that can be punished with death. Infamous crimes are those that can be punished with prison or loss of rights. The federal government must obtain an indictment, or formal accusation from a grand jury to prosecute anyone for such crimes […] (America: Pathways to the Present-17).’
The second infringement is holding of tribunals which infringes on the your 6th Amendment rights. The 6th Amendments states, ‘In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.’ It also goes against Article 3, Section 3. ‘The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in state where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any state, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law have directed.’ This means that anyone accused of a federal crime has the right to a trial by jury, with the exception of impeachments.
And my final reason we should repeal this bill is because by destroying our civil rights, the terrorists are winning this battle. By the United States passing this bill we have showed that the terrorists can make us change our ways and life styles. Now that we are vulnerable to this they will repeatedly commit acts of violence to the point that we will have to ask the government for permission to do anything from to talk. We are sacrificing our rights, the rights we were given when we became citizens, the reason we became citizens of the United States. Slowly we are begging to lose those rights, and eventually we will become a communist state like the Soviet Union.
If you walk in anothers footsteps you\'ll never leave your own mark.
December 8th, 2001, 07:47 PM
It is true that the American's President Bush is against terrorism. Obviously he just wanted to take 'terrorism' to the next level. He just wanted popular opinion, because with the bad rep that 'Hackers' have today is ridiculus. 99% of people don't know that. They automatically think: Malacious; evil; exploitation; webpage defacement; netowork exploition; virii; ...deadcomputers - whenever the word 'hacker' or 'hack' comes up. Which is not good at all. I mean look at Adrian Lamo, he's a nice guy,...him walking around DC (which I visit frequently) with his Toshiba laptop, which I beleive is missing two keys. He is a hacker, yet is he malacious - no, it he evil - no, does he deface websites and post up absurd comments - no, does he write virii then exploit a common hole for his own pleasure - no. Yet he hacks companies, and finds flaws,...and instead of programming or writing a text to exploit this hole, he tells the company...and does this for free... Now under this bill, it is possible for this man to go to jail. For partying and increasing security...it's almost laughable.
...This Space For Rent.
December 8th, 2001, 08:17 PM
Dude welcome to real life. Our cival rights were gone once we started modifying everying. It's not fair at all. But many confuse or computer rights with are regular human rights. We think what is allowed on the streets is bybassed on the net. Not saying you or other computer geeks like myself. but just to say somthing . What you know is a step into higher learning.
"We are just hearded sheep getting moved on one of the greatest plains of all time LIFE"
You must learn to think ahead, why are we all getting moved in this direction. What is the great cause, what is the motivation, what are the long term goals, where will we end up in 10 years because of this, Is there a loophole.
I would like to compliment you on posting your true views. Try asking a normal soccer mom, or house wife what is going on in the world and they will know nothing about this. The hardest thing to do is let the common people know what is truley going on.
Make print-outs and post them everywhere. Keep it where the average person might not look and you have already lost. Expose the truth to the world and you can change everything.
December 8th, 2001, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by freeOn
Dude welcome to real life.
I beg to differ. It's not the real world but sadly the world we accept, without a fight. It's similar to the theory Micro$oft must work under- "As long as people keep accepting crap it will be profitable to sell it"
I don't know if anyone here can remember but back in 1990 the citizens of 2 Eastern European Countries did what people in America have failed to do. They've broken into the Secret Police buildings, arrested the men inside and confiscated the records of tyranny and brutality.
It seems that most of us only protest the issues carefully placed under our noses by the media. For example- gun control, abortion, drugs etc.
No one is immune to Big Brother..
December 8th, 2001, 09:16 PM
Every new law in some way affects freedom(there are some things we don't want antone free to do) every time one is passed a little bit of freedom just slipped away...along with the tax payer money that goes to pass and enforce it. Alas,babylon
December 8th, 2001, 09:23 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Conf1rm3d_K1ll
I beg to differ. It's not the real world but sadly the world we accept, without a fight. It's similar to the theory Micr$oft must work under- "As long as people keep accepting crap it will be profitable to sell it"
Dude you blame microsoft for all the worlds evils. If the product is such crap why does the whole friggin world run it then?Don't make absolute statements. Esp when you are OFF TOPIC this isn't your ****ing microsoft bashin thread . Your just trying to justify twisting it so by using your lame ass "example"
December 8th, 2001, 09:32 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by larryjs
It's called "Market Monopoly"
Dude you blame microsoft for all the worlds evils. If the product is such crap why does the whole friggin world run it then?
It appears you've mis read my reply. I was pointing out how people just sit back and let things happen such as the anti privacy laws. Micro$oft just happened to be an example that I used. I suggest you take the time to think about whats been written rather than just replying. Than that little grey dot next to your name might turn into a little green dot. Stranger things have happened!
December 8th, 2001, 09:54 PM
Yet he hacks companies, and finds flaws,...and instead of programming or writing a text to exploit this hole, he tells the company...and does this for free... Now under this bill, it is possible for this man to go to jail. For partying and increasing security...it's almost laughable.
holy ****.. does this mean im in trouble too??!!
and if u would ask "why? do u do those things too?" well my answer is YES.. i do it every day... thats what i do for the whole day... and thats what i encourage other neophytes to do...
December 8th, 2001, 09:59 PM
ok this is ****.. i dont deface websites.. i dont write virueses.. im totally against damaging other people's properties/private files..
i do this out of the good of my heart to hopefully make the internet more secure.. and i freakin do it for free...
and as a thank you by the US government.. i'd go to jail?? and be in a tribuneral held by army boys?? thats so ungrateful of them...
though i dont doubt that those universities and companies that i help would support me, but still.... it doesnt have to go this way.
December 8th, 2001, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by Conf1rm3d_K1ll
It's called "Market Monopoly"
It appears you've mis read my reply. I was pointing out how people just sit back and let things happen such as the anti privacy laws( I agree with you on that one). Micro$oft just happened to be an example that I used. (And thats what my focus was on....I have read many of your post and you bash MS every chance you get. Didn't you read my POST? This time uder the guise of using it as an example. I work there and it is the best ****ing job I ever had and I have had a few)I suggest you take the time to think about whats been written rather than just replying. Than that little grey dot next to your name might turn into a little green dot( Like I give a flying ****!!! I have seen some of your "Sr" members ,RiOtEr for examle he is a little 17 year old sript kiddie. Any group that has that snot nosed illiterate as a "SR" member should REACCESS the sitation). Stranger things have happened!