December 13th, 2001, 01:08 PM
I have recently heard about the microsoft programming language C# and wish to express my views. I feel that C# is not a viable solution for internet applications because of its lack of cross platform support. Microsoft developed this language and hopes for it to become an alternative to java, however they insist that the language only be useful on microsoft systems. They hope that the majority of people will switch to this making the people who want to access the internet use microsoft products to view pages. MacOS, Linux, Unix all become obselete and microsoft becomes the dominant force on the internet. Just my opinion. For more check out:
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December 13th, 2001, 01:26 PM
C# is very similar to java and I don't think it will add anything new if you look at the programming language isolated.
However, it is a welcome contribution for development of web-applications on the Windows platform. As a part of MS' .Net strategy it is ment to make developing easier and more powerful. At this point if you're doing web develpment on Windows, you have to use ASP (vb-script, jscript) and COM+ (ActiveX). The COM+ is powerful enough, as you can make components in Visual C++. But the scripting is rather limited, and perhaps C# can do something about that.
Many companies who earlier made bussiness applications which run isolated on a pc, now make the same applications using internet technology (browser/web & application server). In that kind of environment you can choose what browser the users use, and in that case, you can also develop ActiveX controllers in C#. Also for this development C# is a valuable contribution.
But as you say, none of these things works well on other platform than Windows, and that is a shame. Still there is alternatives, and that is a good thing. Then you can use whatever suits your needs.
December 13th, 2001, 01:57 PM
I agree, with this successor of C++ Microsoft seems to include much of the functionallity of Java. This reminds me of the MS vs. Sun battle over java. In short, Microsoft added their own Java Virtual Machine to Windows, while Sun demanded that its open sourced Virtual Machine was used. After that, Microsoft refused to include java with Windows at all, which pissed Sun off even more.
Makes me wonder: was this all some sort of publicity stunt to attract media attention to the upcoming C#? Everyone associates this 'battle' with C#. Furthermore, Microsoft is believed to have used some other strange advertisement methods? We've all seen the blue screen at the presentation of Windows '98, right? Some people believe that that's been another advertisement - it even got onto the national television news over here. Bad publicity is publicity too, right?
Sun's documentation on the lawsuit.
Microsoft's side of the story.
Windows '98 Bluescreen at Comdex Demonstration
December 13th, 2001, 02:25 PM
thepreacher maybe you should stick with current events. C# is a disgrace to the C family. C is supposed to be a powerful and portable, FREE language, not this proprietary - platform dependant crap.
December 13th, 2001, 02:39 PM
Still, C# is a new language on the market, offering new functions, and new security risks. Even more so when you'd discuss the related .NET topic. Thus, I think ThePreacher's thread is quite valid.
December 13th, 2001, 03:40 PM
Considering MS is always looking to "corner the market" for applications that relate ONLY to Windows environments, C# and .Net is just an addition to that, as far as I'm concerned.
1: MS permits Kerberos authentication for non-NT servers yet
doesn't tell what the last field (left reserved for future development) is being used for as they did something with it. Hmmmmm......
2: MS vs Sun in dealing with Java. Sun MADE Java and it's pretty damned good. Anyone can use the SDK for Java and create applications and whatnot for Java that's non-browser specific, as long as it's got the Java 2 plugin. To put MS' version of Java means that it's NOT going to work on other OS/browsers, hereby eliminating competition through flat out refusal. Not quite a friendly environment and while I agree that that's part of business, this is nothing new for MS and it should be looked at/stopped.
3: It's not unknown to hear of MS either incorporating a business' strategy into their OS by reverse-engineering the software and providing it for free (because the business didn't sell out) or they'd buy out the company to get to the product, get rid of the staff, and now have sole rights to the product to do whatever they want.
What do I think on this (and more)? I think MS as a company has used rather bad tactics to get where they are. They do NOT have a stable OS, they do NOT have "open" products (used on other OSes), and they do NOT believe in the 'open source-share' philosophy. As a programmer, I know that if you put the effort in a program, it can run on any platform you want as well as you want. I wrote a script once that would go out and gather security specs. It was an all-in-one-catchall script made for AIX, HP, and Solaris...think you could do that for Win 3.1, 95, 98? I'm guessing not.
I am by no means an anti-MS bigot..I'm just SICK AND TIRED of their crappy products, crappy TS (tech support), crappy OS, and I'm REALLY tired of having to be forced to use an OS that does NOT do what it says it's supposed to do (multithreaded multitasking 32-bit? HAHAHAHA, I know 98SE doesn't). Maybe, just maybe, when they create a product line that does what it says it's supposed to and isn't as closed as it is now, I'll actually pay for the OS (licensed products of everything on my machine except the OS...I will NOT buy products that are faulty). When VMWare gets game support going, I'm SO there! Anyone know if it does games?
We the willing, led by the unknowing, have been doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much with so little for so long that we are now qualified to do just about anything with almost nothing.
December 13th, 2001, 04:09 PM
you can always get one of those cheap new Sun Blade 100s and put a Sun PCi II Co Processor card in.
December 15th, 2001, 01:38 PM
ThePreacher you hit the nail sqaure on the head with this post.
EVERYONE should read http://www.opensource.org/halloween/links.html about the Microsoft memos that leaked a couple of years ago.
They didn't have a name for them then, today they call them C# and .NET, I am excpecting a IPv4 or IPv6 *like* protocol with some cute disarming name to come out with the release of their next version of Windows.
The danger is clearly spelled out in Microsofts own words. The threat you and many others see is very real.
Microsoft gets their asses kicked in every existing protocol as well as uptimes and downtimes by Unix and Linux in the server market. They want to eliminate the superior server OS by developing a set of internet protocols that will be closed source and proprietary (i.e. only MS OS's can serve with them).
Know this..., you may not by thyself in pride claim the Mantle of Wizardry; that way lies only Bogosity without End.
Rather must you Become, and Become, and Become, until Hackers respect thy Power, and other Wizards hail thee as a Brother or Sister in Wisdom, and you wake up and realize that the Mantle hath lain unknown upon thy Shoulders since you knew not when.
December 15th, 2001, 05:45 PM
MS bashing aside, I think C# will ultimately become *the* choice for Internet applications over Java for the following reasons:
1)MS is behind it.
2)MS is behind it.
3)MS is behind it....
you get the idea.
But having said that, at the moment, theres no way C# is taking over the mantle from Java any time soon. The reason - Java has just had more time to mature and it is now a *secure* and trusted platform.
Anyway, that's just my opinion,
December 15th, 2001, 06:59 PM
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