Do tell- A hacker or a cracker

[Crimina1]

Originally posted by PhirePhreak
I hate to have to say this, but you honestly have no clue what you're saying(nothing but bullshit). The reason no one thinks you're a danger to anyone but yourself is due to the way you try to act(like a three year old). I can tell alot about someone just by their post, and I can tell exactly what you are(lame script kiddie, aka KIDDIOT).

Here's an idea. Let's take a quick little trip to ZingLand. It's a happy place. You are the CEO of a major corporation. You have money, power, prestige, respect, oh yeah, and money. But very limited computing skills(but then again, how's that last part different from now?). Anyway, your customers do business with your company online. The system is very secure, and everyone is convinced that it's perfect. But then, the unthinkable happens. A cracker (or black hat hacker) gains illegitimate access to the server. He views billing information for your customers. He subscribes to thousands of pr0n sites using "his" new credit card numbers. Your customers are not very happy about that. Would you be?

So, to help calm their fears (and hopefully keep their business), you let them all know that you are working on "h4><0ring 7h3 h4><0r'z b0x" and will get him back for it. So what? That doesn't help them? You can't bring the cracker to justice just by momentarily crashing his machine. But the FBI can. Oh, and by crashing his machine, you made the cracker mad. So he unleashes another attack on your corporation. And again. And again. And again. Your corporation soon loses all its business, and is forced to file for bankruptcy. All because yotu had to be "1337" and fight back, not counting on others to fight back for you.

***ALTERNATE ENDING***
So, to help calm your customers' fears, you tell them that you have done a few preliminary investigations within your own server (viewing logs and such) and have turned the information over to the FBI. After a brief search, the FBI tracks down the cracker, and tosses him in the slammer for a while, to spend some quality time with his new cellmate, Bubba. Of course, this time consists of repeatedly being "violated" in a most unnatural fashion. Oh yeah, and he has to pay your company twice what he stole from his little exploit, which you then distribute accordingly to your customers. The cracker eventually gets off early for good behavior, and realizes that "Hey! I can do better than this!". So he gets hired on to various companies as a systems security engineer or something like that. He realized the folly of his ways, and, in the end, everyone won, because your customers respected your decision, the cracker reformed and began to work for good, and your company saved face.

Oh, and about the FBI being unable to do anything (or something similar to that which I believe you said): The FBI scares the crap out of me. They know more about me than I want to know that they know... But I'm not worried. I'm white hat. I'm a good guy. I'm a true hacker, not some badass cracker. I used to be a cracker, and the FBI came so incredibly close to busting me. But I got a second chance. Someone with your attitude will probably not be so lucky. Beware of the FBI. They have so many ways of gathering information. Oh, and that "hot chick" you were talking to on Instant Messenger earlier? Yeah, "she" is a fed. He's been watching you for some time. Sure, he can talk the talk and all... you would just die if you saw the log he has of those naughty sites you've been viewing.

It doesn't matter if JP gets paid for helping the Feds. As you grow up (older than the thirteen you are now), you will realize that there IS more to this life than money. When you help someone, you get a really cool feeling... a very good feeling. The same happens when you could do something wrong, but you choose to do the right thing. Fighting back, and sinking down to the level of a cracker or black hat hacker, is the wrong choice. Helping them be caught, LEGALLY, is the right one, and is always so much more rewarding in the end. You can't brag to a cop about "Hey d00d! I just h4><0r3d this punks box cause he pissed me 0ff!" But it always looks good to say "Yeah, back in tenth grade, I helped out the FBI. They were looking for this one particular cracker, and I helped bring him to justice."

I could go on forever on this subject, but I think you've gotten enough. But if I view more ignorance on your part, I will not hesitate to act.

*sigh* It's people like you that make me want to stop visiting the forums altogether. <sappy harp music>I remember back in the Stone Age when there were no threads like this one...</music>

*sniff* I miss the old AntiOnline...

--PhirePhreak

Why dont you and JP just go and apply to be little FBI AGENTS and help catch all the really bad guys doing all the really bad things in computer land ?.I have alot more respect for crackers and some criminals
than I have for people that deal with the FBI and Cops.DONT MAKE ASUMPTIONS,I'm alot older than 13
and didn't get to this "cavalier"age by working with the FBI or COPS.
Some people here act like they are so self righteous and really dont know anything about anything,I've never been a "script kiddie" although script kiddies do get an E for Effort which is alot more than you probly
put in to your "opinion".
Why does mostly everyone here act like they know it all ?If I knew that antionline had a bunch of rocket
scientist on hand I would've saved my tuition and just came here and let all you brain surgeons save me some $$$$$$;NOT.

It's people with your naivete that keep me in business people that think that they know people and dont know ****. keep up the trend I need a new car,your probly from some bum**** hic town where crime is just a word and your whole police force is 50 total.go Phreak a phone and move out of mommies house,grow some real balls and then talk about what you know not what you think you know.Script kiddie.

Crimina1

[EvIl eLf]

What is with all the hostilities lets all get along and not be immature.



God bless

[Crimina1]

Originally posted by s0nIc
lol first of all.. i think we should not fear the FBI but be AWARE of them.. i mean like.. i know some of u here think you are gods and the govt are just like little toy soldiers dat u can play around wid.. well think again..

what if u get caught and get in jail for 3 years? i know what u'll say.. "big deal" well big deal this.. for 3 yrs u'll be locked up in a cage.. in there you are "nothing" not a hacker not a gangster nothing at all.. but juz fresh meat.. new toy for inmates to play wid...

3 yrs wasted in jail.. locked up when u could have done something more... 3yrs might not seem much but i know some of u cant even stand to be grounded for 1 week.. well 1week in jail is worse dan being grounded for 1 week..

i can see it now.. God-like cracker/hacker in jail crying like a baby lookin for mommy coz he/she is tired of bein ****ed up da arse...

like i said.. a hacker knows he/she is on a higher level but knows that great powers comes wid great responsibilities..

crackers think they are gods and can do anything they want...

there is a fine line between being brave and stupid.. and crackers always cross that line and become stupid..

Why does everyone think that someone named "BuBBa is going to make them a bitch if they go to prison?
It's people that think like that that wind up being the ones to get it in the ass.In reality none can make you a bitch unless you let them or want to be thier bitch.Stop watching movies they are not true.
The FBI doesn't have anything that the average criminal doesn't have or cant get so why are so many people so scared of them ?Because they are scared of prison.But why be scared? if your man enough
to do whatever it is you did ,why aren't you man enough to do your time if you get caught?.Those are your true Bitches.I like to call them SCARED STRAIGHT BITCHES because they have no back bone like alot of you so-called self profaned "hackers" here.
s0nic these days imates even get to have sex with thier very own spouses(women) not BuBBa unless you want him.Cages dont exist and they even get cable tv at tax payers expense,at some prisons you even have golf courts.So if I were going to hack something I would dam sure make sure it was well worth the money or not waste my time with it,but not because I let the FBI scare me into not doing it.
They are just people not aleins.If I had a dime for everytime a lawofficer told me I would go prison or else,
I would have alot more money.Depending on what it is,it's always well worth the risk.The worst that can happen is you get caught and do some time.You use that time to get better at your trade so when you come out you will be that much better.

Crimina1

[Vorlin]

Hmmm...what started out as a good post turned into some kind of holy war, no doubt pitting hackers against crackers. Someone set us up the bomb! Guys, who gives a rat's ass if someone wants to do their skript kiddy DoS against some business? Nothing's gonna happen to them anyways because, guess what, they're a minor! All I can do (and others) is secure my boxes tighter than a bunch of virgins on their first night and keep my end secure, that's all. I try to pass on my knowledge when I can to whoever wants to learn how to really do something right, whether it be security or programming or unix administration, but the end result is the same. Maybe then they won't have to go out and do all the usual bullshit of script kiddy behaviour. On here, pass the knowledge out. And if you're a cracker, don't fscking hype yourself up. Nobody cares. And if you're a hacker, don't fscking hype yourself up either. Nobody cares. All *I* care about is learning more **** to help me be of better service to others and to do my job better. AND, if I can pass on something I learned to someone else to help them do their job better, then I've succeeded. If I pass on some tip I got on here to someone to help them prevent a hack or something and it works, then BOOYA I've succeeded and then, just maybe, they'll come on here to learn more too. And what will they see?

A bunch of idiots talking about how badass they are....just what we DON'T want them to see.
Can we get some teamwork going? Maybe? Perhaps? Think about it? I mean, I can get my group (all 2 of us, hehe...and the other person knows who they are) to help me, but just US two can't do it alone.

[zion1459]

Originally posted by Vorlin
Hmmm...what started out as a good post turned into some kind of holy war, no doubt pitting hackers against crackers. Someone set us up the bomb! Guys, who gives a rat's ass if someone wants to do their skript kiddy DoS against some business? Nothing's gonna happen to them anyways because, guess what, they're a minor! All I can do (and others) is secure my boxes tighter than a bunch of virgins on their first night and keep my end secure, that's all. I try to pass on my knowledge when I can to whoever wants to learn how to really do something right, whether it be security or programming or unix administration, but the end result is the same. Maybe then they won't have to go out and do all the usual bullshit of script kiddy behaviour. On here, pass the knowledge out. And if you're a cracker, don't fscking hype yourself up. Nobody cares. And if you're a hacker, don't fscking hype yourself up either. Nobody cares. All *I* care about is learning more **** to help me be of better service to others and to do my job better. AND, if I can pass on something I learned to someone else to help them do their job better, then I've succeeded. If I pass on some tip I got on here to someone to help them prevent a hack or something and it works, then BOOYA I've succeeded and then, just maybe, they'll come on here to learn more too. And what will they see?

A bunch of idiots talking about how badass they are....just what we DON'T want them to see.
Can we get some teamwork going? Maybe? Perhaps? Think about it? I mean, I can get my group (all 2 of us, hehe...and the other person knows who they are) to help me, but just US two can't do it alone.

i couldn't have said it better myself...

[Crimina1]

Originally posted by Vorlin
Hmmm...what started out as a good post turned into some kind of holy war, no doubt pitting hackers against crackers. Someone set us up the bomb! Guys, who gives a rat's ass if someone wants to do their skript kiddy DoS against some business? Nothing's gonna happen to them anyways because, guess what, they're a minor! All I can do (and others) is secure my boxes tighter than a bunch of virgins on their first night and keep my end secure, that's all. I try to pass on my knowledge when I can to whoever wants to learn how to really do something right, whether it be security or programming or unix administration, but the end result is the same. Maybe then they won't have to go out and do all the usual bullshit of script kiddy behaviour. On here, pass the knowledge out. And if you're a cracker, don't fscking hype yourself up. Nobody cares. And if you're a hacker, don't fscking hype yourself up either. Nobody cares. All *I* care about is learning more **** to help me be of better service to others and to do my job better. AND, if I can pass on something I learned to someone else to help them do their job better, then I've succeeded. If I pass on some tip I got on here to someone to help them prevent a hack or something and it works, then BOOYA I've succeeded and then, just maybe, they'll come on here to learn more too. And what will they see?

A bunch of idiots talking about how badass they are....just what we DON'T want them to see.
Can we get some teamwork going? Maybe? Perhaps? Think about it? I mean, I can get my group (all 2 of us, hehe...and the other person knows who they are) to help me, but just US two can't do it alone.

Well put vorlin.your 150% correct !

Crimina1

[VictorKaum]

I promised myself not to reply here...but
I agree with zion1459 (and Vorlin). (post #35 and #34)

[dinoman]

Just my observation but,

1. The hackers seem to post replies that seek to help, except in replies to crackers.
2. Crackers seem to post replies that imply anger with in them. Anger at the world.

Therefore, the terminology that "hackers build up and crackers tear down" seems to lead to a correct one.

In order for me to learn the profession of a "protector/security" professional I would need the mentorship from both. I need the dicipline of the hacker and the drive of the cracker. That would make one hell of white hat.

[jared_c]

Here is how I view it.

1) Cracker - Obviously someone that cracks things. Whether they are cracking a login, a serial number, encryption, or whatever.

2) Hacker - People that have a thirst for knowledge, usually involving electronic devices.

IMHO, Crackers are hackers, but they are usually using there knowledge not to benefit anyone except theirselves, even if it is hurting someone. For example, web site crackers. They crack a web site and throw up their handle so they can seem cool to their peers, meanwhile not caring that they are hurting someone's business that the person worked all their life to create. But then their are the crackers that do benefit the field. Cryptographers for example. So we can't really say that all crackers are evil, just like we can't say that hackers are all bad just because of some trouble makers.

What it comes down to is not necessarily what title you hold, it's what kind of person you are. There are good people and there are bad people. What you do with your knowledge reflects what kind of person you are. If you crack a site and ruin someone's business, then you my friend are an *******. In my opinion, yes you are a cracker because you cracked, and you most likely are a hacker because your thirst for knowledge eventually led you to learn how to crack. But you are an ******* as a person.

So basically IMHO, some people suck and some people don't. :-)

[zion1459]

ok... here's the shortest version of how to distinguish between a hacker and a cracker I could come up with:
As we all know, hackers are the good guys. So when we meet some1 we think is a hacker but the person turns out to be "not such a good guy" then that person must be a cracker.

This isn't a very good way to distinguish between the two types of ppl but it's better than nothing.

Or how about this: Hacking is a profession... cracking isn't....
there... that has to be the shortest explanation ever made...