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Thread: What Do You Belive Is True?

  1. #31
    Noble Hamlet
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    Before you read this post please do not judge my views by my past threads and mannerisms here at AntiOnline. Please adjust your mindset to unbiased. Thank you. Noble Hamlet

    Firstly there is a lack of perspective here.
    In an American dominated group it is hard for the Muslims among the group to freely express their views.

    You see America has for so long ignored the plight and deaths that have marred Eastern society that they view their tradegy as punishable by extreme force. This is crazy considering we all have our tradegies.

    Importantly although Negative has covered the vast wrongs that this thread endorses I will try reinforce some of them.

    Firstly Islam is a religion not an ideology or philosophy. Theology is a different matter and mixing religion with politics is never wise.

    Rightly so the US disestablished the Taliban Regime but in a 'more advanced society' surely punishing Osama Bin Ladin by toture is highly obsurd! Considering the greatest world division apart from First World/Third World is the East/West Divide that the West is supposedly the more cival of the too this kind of thinking is irrational and out of place.

    Anyway aside from these perhaps controversial views I have a more pressing matter to attend to,
    Communism is not Evil!
    Maybe US history books are full of propaganda but last time I checked Communism was simply a failed ideology, if you are viewing Communism through the eyes of Stalin then you are restrcting your view on the subject.

    To understand real Communism look at Marx and Lenin, in fact Lenin did not wish to see Stalin in power as you can read in his Testament.

    Also important to note is that perhaps the greatest Marxist writer excluding Marx and Engels themselves was a Scotsman from guess what 'The West!'.

    Here have a look for yourself James Connolly

    Now that we have that all cleared up, perhaps a brief summary is in order.

    • Islam is a religion not an ideology of philosophy
    • A cival humane view should be taken on the Bin Ladin front
    • Communism is not evil even if Stalin tainted the Wests View.
    • Ignorance only prevails if you allow yourslef to fall into an ignorant majority.


    And also for those who died in the World Trade Centre Rest In Peace.
    For those who have died in all the tradegies of the World Rest In Peace.

    Thank you all for your time.

  2. #32
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    Lightbulb

    Comming from a Muslim background, yet not Muslim myself, I have noticed many things that I know that other people truely wish not to. Some people literally want to not know about the goodness, and the faithfullness of Muslims only in fear that they might turn to 'like them', and to "them"...that seems like a bad idea. Fascist parents teach their children to love one another, and to follow US law, which states to own no hatred for one's religion, nationality, or dissability. Some parents teach their children "Christian Law" - which states: Love thy neighbor as thyself"; yet continue with the harrassing of Muslims accross America.
    Islam is a religion, not some idealist fundamental 'frame-of-mind' one must pick up one his/her way to die. It's a faith, a beleif. I, myself, am not Muslim however. I am Agnostic...but we can get into this later. But what I do know and have, is a respect for ALL religions. I mean, look at Hinduism...is that some crappy false religion since it's polytheistic. Since it has more than ten gods and godesses, is it a 'lesser' religion now? Not 'worthy' of ones choice?
    *sigh*...ignorant people suck. Imagine if I said all Christians were stupid and hateful. For Hitler was Catholic, see. This MUST mean that all Catholics, must less Christains, must be burnt and left to die in a huge pit dug up by Jewish politians. This would not seem fair, for Hitler was just a man, just a single life form, a single being. How could one man impact a whole religion? Ah, same thing for Osama Bin-Laden, my dear dear friends. Yet you seem to think your Jesus was a savior?

    I pity the fool who is ignorant in faith...for he must not know what the **** is going on...
    ...This Space For Rent.

    -[WebCarnage]

  3. #33
    Noble Hamlet
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    Originally posted by [WebCarnage]
    For Hitler was Catholic, see.
    I agree with the general viewpoint of your post.

    Yes but Hitler abandoned religion and was not lets say a practising Catholic, he had no time for religion unlike Osama Bin Ladin whose whole goal is to die for his religion.

    Just to point out thats all.

  4. #34
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Originally posted by Noble Hamlet
    Before you read this post please do not judge my views by my past threads and mannerisms here at AntiOnline. Please adjust your mindset to unbiased. Thank you. Noble Hamlet

    Firstly Islam is a religion not an ideology or philosophy. Theology is a different matter and mixing religion with politics is never wise.


    Communism is not Evil!
    Maybe US history books are full of propaganda but last time I checked Communism was simply a failed ideology, if you are viewing Communism through the eyes of Stalin then you are restrcting your view on the subject.

    !. All of the above. Muslims like to call it a "way of life"
    I think that encompasses a lot more than what some of us
    call religion. In America, people often say "religion is a private
    matter", but I don't restrict the definition of religion
    to ones private thoughts, and I don't think Muslims
    accept that restrictive definition either.

    Within a generation of its founding, Islam had conquered
    a third of the known world, establishing Islamic civil law.
    It is a religiously based ideology, claiming the total loyalty
    of "the faithful" It is also a system of government.
    To deny this is to ignore a thousand years of history.

    2. A matter of opinion. I think Marx's original ideas are evil.
    Stalin catches the blame for a philosophy/government/
    ideology that was flawed to begin with.

    If we focus on personalities instead of ideas, we miss
    the point I tried to raise earlier when I claimed that
    the root of the 9-11 problem is in ideology, not just
    one man.
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Ouroboros's Avatar
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    Unhappy I still don't get it...

    rcgreen...i still don't get it...

    you are proposing the destruction of a major world religion, and seemingly have no regard for the people that practice it. As reflected in the previous posts, and subliminaly suggested by you, that it is not the religion itself that is the thorn in your side. Just the ideology. But such ideologies are created and propagated by mankind ourselves. It seems that nowadays, the original writings and philosophies of the world's oldest religions are being twisted into bases of 'ideologies'. This is one thing that has eternally puzzled me about religion debates. I can't think of one major world religion that hasn't done some pretty questionable, if not unforgivable, things. Except maybe Buddhism...hell, they burned themselves alive to protest Vietnam, for crying out loud.

    Anyways...I don't associate myself with any particular 'religion'...kind of a 'partial atheist' so to speak. But to deny anyone to choose and/or practice a religion is not only repressive, but ignorant. The Christian ideal of 'Free Will' is something that i value deeply...and I respect anyone and everyone's, Christian, Jewish, etc. It does not apply only to Christians, in my mind, as it is a noble idea in and of itself.

    It all boils down to this: "I may not agree with what you say...but I'll defend to my death your right to say it" -- Voltaire. Why doesn't this statement refer to everything? Religion, Political Affiliation, Favorite Sports Team?

    To want destruction of ideas is an invitation to ignorance.

    Ouroboros
    "entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem"

    "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity."

    -Occam's Razor


  6. #36
    PHP/PostgreSQL guy
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    In an American dominated group it is hard for the Muslims among the group to freely express their views.

    You see America has for so long ignored the plight and deaths that have marred Eastern society that they view their tradegy as punishable by extreme force. This is crazy considering we all have our tradegies.
    Well, I disagree with that because of the following:

    1: anyone in the world has the right to come to the USA with a green card, H1 visa, as an exchange student, etc...

    2: said people come over (let's use, for example, an Indian family) and establish residence with US family or whatnot. They now live in our country and can get a job, etc etc...

    3: said family now lives in the US under the visa/green card allowances, which are all but null and void because they can 'disappear' into society without too much worry.

    4: they live in our society and practice their religions (perfectly fine), and live with their customs (also fine).

    All ideas on visas/etc aside, how can they mingle with US if they're the ones living like rats in a cave not talking to anyone? That makes no sense and I've seen more than one family doing it. The only exceptions to that statement is that the kids play with other kids all the same yet the parents and older siblings won't. No sense in that. So I disagree with that statement about how hard it is for muslims to freely state their views.

    I *really* disagree with it considering that they could burn a flag on the courthouse steps in the US screaming how much they hate us, and we can't do **** yet you go over there and even *look* like you're going to blaspheme the Koran or their customs and that is YOUR ASS.

    Where's the fairness in that? They treat americans like **** over there. I should know. And if you're american, and you commit a crime....you'll be wishing you WERE Bubba's bitch. Because it's a LOT worse for americans when punishment comes.
    We the willing, led by the unknowing, have been doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much with so little for so long that we are now qualified to do just about anything with almost nothing.

  7. #37
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    its seems ive stumbled upon a volatile thread lol.

    I completely disagree with just about everything that rcgreen has said. To want to destroy all of the practitioners of a religeon because you think it is evil is ludicrus. If every religeon was attempted to be wiped out by those who didnt like it or disagreed with it then the world would fall apart, it would crumble into a never-ending cycle of religeous wars.

    I dont agree with the muslim faith, Im a druid, however that is what they want to believe then by all means, have at it. Bin ladens actions reflect himself, and his subbordinates, and the mass of fanatics that follow his banner.

    I stopped following the tragedy about a week after it happened, know why? Because america has turned it into a way to make money. I have seen car commercials saying that you should buy their cars to help america get back on its feet, there have been telethons,(one in which Limp Bizkit destroyed a perfectly fine Pink Floyd song), the sale of american merchandise has never been higher,(flags, stickers, lovely little quotes about the inhuman torture of Bin laden) and the american people are sucking it up, because they are fickle. the majority of people have moved on in most respects, except for the select few who are still chanting for his head on a plate.

    We must be a civilized nation. Attacking innocent muslims in the streets, driving cars into mosques, screaming for the torture of Bin laden, all in the name of civilization. Im sure that somewhere in your mind you have justified all of those acts somehow, and for that good sir, i pity you.

    It is people like you rc, that make me ashamed to call myself an american. This was supposed to be a country based on freedom of religeon and speech, but our tolerance is much more fleeting than it was intended. If ignorance is bliss, than you are probably the happiest man alive.

    (prepares to be flamed)

  8. #38
    Noble Hamlet
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    (prepares to be flamed)
    It is ok to be flamed as long as you believe you are right, those that flame you in a forum like this lack persuasive argument and resort to the lowest common denominator!

    Justifiable all arguments are correct in the mind of the user unless proven wrong by either fact or evidence .

    Flaming is neither so dont worry. Dont worry about AntiPoints either, hell Ive gotten a lot of negative antipoints in my time but I try not let it affect me and it is now my goal to go green again.

  9. #39
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    look-i believe what OBL cannot be expressed in our restricted language but i still feel strongly about him living
    no matter how you phrase it-no matter what someones done or how much grief and anger you hold inside
    if OBL is killed for his doings-the fact will always remain that we have also taken a life.
    look lock him up in a cage for all i care-this way everyday he'll know what people think,how the world is thriving without him
    and perhaps in some sort of miracle he will develop a conscience and if/or when that occurs it will be a far better
    destructive punishment than what we could ever wish upon him..........thats what i feel at this point of my life for the past 19 years.........

  10. #40
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Cykat
    its seems ive stumbled upon a volatile thread lol.

    I completely disagree with just about everything that rcgreen has said. To want to destroy all of the practitioners of a religeon because you think it is evil is ludicrus. If every religeon was attempted to be wiped out by those who didnt like it or disagreed with it then the world would fall apart, it would crumble into a never-ending cycle of religeous wars.

    I dont agree with the muslim faith, Im a druid, however that is what they want to believe then by all means, have at it.
    I respectfully suggest that you re-read my posts.
    I have not suggested that anyone be subjected
    to violence or persecution, even though I have
    said that their religion is evil.

    If the governments of Islamic countries want to
    earn respect and avoid blame for 9-11, then they
    should openly proclaim that they will follow
    the same policies on religious freedom as we
    do in the west.

    Why shouldn't a resident of Saudi Arabia
    have the freedom to convert to another
    faith? Why shouldn't people have the right
    to go there and peacefully proseletize
    for other religions?

    If the people of the Islamic world had the
    freedom to choose their own beliefs,
    and many chose to abandon Islam,
    the world would be a better place.
    As for those who choose to remain Muslim,
    that's ok with me, but they must renounce
    violence. The burden of proof is on them
    to make a show of good faith that they
    have truly renounced the policy of
    violence, persecution, and terrorism as
    a means of spreading their "peaceful" faith.
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

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