when is the law broken?
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Thread: when is the law broken?

  1. #1
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    Question when is the law broken?

    I was just thinking: "When is the law broken in cyberspace?"
    Is it e.g. illegal to do portscans?

    I came to think of this when I was surfing through some big Internet-firms website and my IDS made a back flip... I was flickering as if all the world's scripts kiddies were DoS'ing me (I really hate this type of IDS'es and have now uninstalled it).

    So how much may the firms make their servers automatically do and how much can we do?
    U can say: "Well why make a portscan if u aint gonna try and break into that persons box?"
    and that's partly true but what if some1 were scanning for FTPs or something...

    I personally think it's because of this great confusion about Internet law that it's so hard to stop computer criminals... And the Internet can't, and musn't be controlled (no country owns it) so how can all these problems be solved???

    whatta u guys/gals think?
    zion1459
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    \"Software is like sex: it\'s better when it\'s free.\" -Linus Torvalds
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  2. #2
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    port scanning is too useful of a tool for network admins to ever ban. Misuse has led to a lot of problems though. Good post zion.
    Wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
    --Ecclesiastes 10:19
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  3. #3
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    Thumbs up

    The posts are getting good now-a-days.

    IMO. The Internet is one of the last bastions of true freedom of expression as long as one does not abuse it. I fear like so many other things this may not last. Due to terroists, sKrIpT KiddIeS and such. It is the only place were for the most part I can come and have a wide open disscusion with many veiwpoints from around the globe briddled in. Ever so often you have a lamer jump in. Other than that we get a rounded picture of how the world is at largee. Thats something you can't just walk out on the street and find.

    As I said before: "You may cage a man, but the mind shall always be free". Lets keep it that way. Open discussions with everyone repecting and placing value to each persons opinion.

    Good post. U2 Preacher.

    The COOKIE TUX lives!!!!
    Windows NT crashed,I am the Blue Screen of Death.
    No one hears your screams.

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  4. #4
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    ThePreacher: I hear ya....

    {PP}Apocalypse: True, but what do we do when they start caging our minds??? The goverments, mega-corporations, every big firm have shrinks working for 'em just so they can analyse the public and brainwash us to buy their products... the government is using words like "Terrorists" now instead of "computer criminals" because the avarage American hate terrorists more than anything because of 11/9.... their twisting our minds (unless ur always aware of the danger).... that's why I can't figure out the law because some times it seems like they convict ppl without actually having a proper law backing up their story... it's scary... the plot thickens.
    zion1459
    Visit: http://www.cpc-net.org
    \"Software is like sex: it\'s better when it\'s free.\" -Linus Torvalds
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  5. #5
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    corporations do these port scans but under regulations.. you may have no idea about this but every website you visit has a detail about u.. ur MAC Address, port scan results.. and more.. but the website has too many visitors for webmasters to keep track who's who.. but they do get sufficient amount of details about your box once you visit or log on to their sites..

    and btw.. i think the govt use the words "terrorism" and "evil" too much.. its starting to get over-rated..
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  6. #6
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    Here in the south we have a saying for it. We call it "bible thumping" (no religeous overtone, just a saying), in the north they call it yielding to popular opinion. I call it mass population control through preying on the fears of people that live in the shadows. The average Joe, may use a computer at work or even surf at home. What or how much does he realy know? Mainly what he hears on the evening news or what the politicians say. In many cases what the major corperations are saying. Look at MS, perfect example of mass mind control through attempting public dis-information.
    They released XP as being the most secure thing since the chastity belt. All of a sudden holes pop up everywhere. Instead of saying "oops we screwed the pooch". They go on this rant on how the persons that found and announced the exploits were at fault for releasing the findings. They told them they should have been silent and no one would have known the difference. So the DOJ is after them for anti-trust violations. But who does the DOJ partner up with for computer security? MS of course. So is the government brandishing a double edged sword. IMO, yes. Why? Back to the start. To control the public. What better way than for them to scare the hell out of the unknowing public than to label exploint finders as terrorist. It makes them look good and gives them more power.
    "But of course Mr.G-Man you may search my company for terrorist (programmers what have you) without a search warrant, I give you my voluntary consent because I'm a good citizen and I'm affraid of terrorist".
    Thats what I believe it will ammount to and thats what they are after. Less freedoms and more control......
    Thats enogh of my rant for the day.....LOL
    The COOKIE TUX lives!!!!
    Windows NT crashed,I am the Blue Screen of Death.
    No one hears your screams.

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  7. #7
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    I agree that the government is trying to take over the USA with the terrorist threats. I have a story about port scanning. I had been useing a port scanning divice, and I was learning more about telneting and the like. I got a new portscanner to try, and I did not know people dislike you useing them. From what I had read it was legal. Well I tried the new port scanner, for no reason in particular, on my ISP. I thought I might try to telnet in and send an email of their maill server. Well our ISP killed our account, and my parents just about killed me. I still read it is legal, but the problem is that too many people misuse this powerful tool. Oh, just in case you are interested, we did finaly get our ISP to reconnect us.
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  8. #8
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    sandsword2: well u didn't break the law 'cause then the ISP would have sued u to hell and back but I'm 95% certain that when u registered at the ISP u agreed to some terms of service that stated that it is stricly forbidden to use portscanners, DoS and the like... nearly all ISPs write this and therefor they have the right to close ppls connection when they find out.

    ISPs suck, they take the fun out of everything
    zion1459
    Visit: http://www.cpc-net.org
    \"Software is like sex: it\'s better when it\'s free.\" -Linus Torvalds
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  9. #9
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    gotta agree with apocalypse,ms have a long history of govt collusion,but this is an area where the providers write the rules
    dont panic my american friends we have been living with the threat of terrorism for years and now the gits are elected members of hm govt... so what really makes sense ??
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  10. #10
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    I think you are doing something illegal in cyberspace when you are accessing (or trying to access) areas of the web that your not authorised to visit. Potscanning though, like ThePreacher said will not be outright banned. No damage is ever done buy portscanning, though sandsword2 tale of being booted of his ISP is worrying (was no scanning part of the contract signed though?).
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