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Thread: Christianity

  1. #1
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    Post Christianity

    Since this is the cosmos forum, I figured we'd have a look at some of the problems with Christianity, and things related. Please keep in mind that I'm not a Satanist or an Athiest. Just to set the record straight, I'm a Lutheran. I'm not antichrist or anything like that. I just like to think for myself, and know what something is before I go believing in it.

    Let's start from the beginning, more specifically Adam and Eve. If you know your Bible, you will know that God told them they could do whatever they wanted as long as they didn't eat from the tree of knowledge. Satan came along in the form of a serpent, and tempted eve into eating from it, and God punished them by putting them in Hell on earth. Let's analyze this, shall we? First off, why was eating from the tree of knowledge so bad? Would it be that they could learn something that could potentially disprove some elements of Christianity as we have so many times before? I think so. Maybe you disagree, and you have every right to. There is nothing wrong with the analytical mind. Also, why did God punish both of them? Eve ate the apple. Adam did not. If God is so fair, why did he unfairly punish? I think we just found a major hole in the teachings of the Bible.

    Also, Satan promises knowledge, and God punishes all those who don't follow him by sending them to hell. You can see how this links back to Adam and Eve. Anyway, why is God so bent on keeping knowledge from people. It sounds to me like there is some truth to be hidden. I still fail to see how knowledge is evil, regardless of what the Bible says.

    Now, onto Jesus. In short, he was sent down to die so we all could be forgiven our sins. Let me ask you this: Why would God, the "supreme" being of the universe have to have his son killed so he could forgive us? Why couldn't he just forgive us? Also, he had to have us sin even more before he could forgive us. He couldn't forigve us until we killed his own son? Maybe I'm missing something here.

    Now, let's go on to the issue of Catholicism. I'm sure we all remember how much blood has been spread by the Catholics in the past just because other cultures believed in other religions. There was the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades, just to name a couple of the wars that have been fought in Christ's name. Does such a "righteous" cause justify the killings of so many? Methinks not. No religion, even Satanism, has even some close to shedding so much blood for their cause. They also have some very odd traditions. For a long time, Catholics weren't allowed to eat meat, except for fish, on Fridays. If you know your history, you will know that there was no religious motive for the pope of the time to declare that. The reason he did that is because he was trying to help a struggling fish market get back on its feet. There was also a period when they began killing Lutherans. So at that point, they had gone from killing others to killing their own. And they did it in Jesus's name, too. It really sounds like these people followed the teachings of the Bible closely. We can also remember back to our history class, and how the Catholic church abused its power by having people pay for forgiveness. As a result, they became big, powerful, and above all, oppressive. Greed is one of the 7 deadly sins, and they certainly were guilty of it. Maybe they aren't so "righteous" after all.

    In summary, Christianity preaches blind faith and threatens eternal torture for all of those who don't follow them. That is a textbook scare tactic, and perfect for thought control. It's also a perfect setup for a cruel joke. There have also been countless scientific advances that contradict the Bible that I couldn't remember them all if I devoted my whole life to it.

    Once again, I'm not down on Christianity. I'm a Christian myself. I just want people to know exactly what it is they're worshipping. You should never just believe in something just because somebody tells you to, especially in religion.

    I'm sure there's more, but it's really late right now, and I'm having some trouble thinking. Maybe I'll add more to this when I'm more alert. In the meantime, I'm going to bed.




    Thoughts/additions/contradictions, anyone?

  2. #2
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    Re: Christianity

    Originally posted here by stflook
    Let's start from the beginning, more specifically Adam and Eve. If you know your Bible, you will know that God told them they could do whatever they wanted as long as they didn't eat from the tree of knowledge. Satan came along in the form of a serpent, and tempted eve into eating from it, and God punished them by putting them in Hell on earth. Let's analyze this, shall we? First off, why was eating from the tree of knowledge so bad? Would it be that they could learn something that could potentially disprove some elements of Christianity as we have so many times before? I think so. Maybe you disagree, and you have every right to. There is nothing wrong with the analytical mind. Also, why did God punish both of them? Eve ate the apple. Adam did not. If God is so fair, why did he unfairly punish? I think we just found a major hole in the teachings of the Bible.
    i personally think that in this story the "tree of knoledge" is used to represent knoledge of right and wrong, for if one does not know what they are doing is wrong they cannot sin; the sin lies in the intent of doing wrong. having both of them thrown out represents them no longer being able to live in a "perfect" world, because they now know wrong when they see it. also, to throw out woman and not man would be to end the species. also, you have to remember that the God of the old testament is not really a fair guy who you would like; He's a god to be feared. he doesnt sentance them to hell, he removes them from paridise(this may be some difference of opnions between our particular religions(roman catholic vs lutheran))

    Also, Satan promises knowledge, and God punishes all those who don't follow him by sending them to hell. You can see how this links back to Adam and Eve. Anyway, why is God so bent on keeping knowledge from people. It sounds to me like there is some truth to be hidden. I still fail to see how knowledge is evil, regardless of what the Bible says.
    erm, im not aware of this happening anywhere in the old testament. could you quote a passage for me? AFAIK, hell isnt really talked about untill the new testament, where Jesus saves EVERYONE from hell, so any banishing-to-hell before that would be rather pointless because that would be where everyone would go anyway.

    Now, onto Jesus. In short, he was sent down to die so we all could be forgiven our sins. Let me ask you this: Why would God, the "supreme" being of the universe have to have his son killed so he could forgive us? Why couldn't he just forgive us? Also, he had to have us sin even more before he could forgive us. He couldn't forigve us until we killed his own son? Maybe I'm missing something here.
    here the point was not to have his son killed, but to have Jesus, in death, take on all the sins of the world, go to hell, and fight his way out(basically; i think the actual language is "trimph over satan")

    Now, let's go on to the issue of Catholicism. I'm sure we all remember how much blood has been spread by the Catholics in the past just because other cultures believed in other religions. There was the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades, just to name a couple of the wars that have been fought in Christ's name. Does such a "righteous" cause justify the killings of so many? Methinks not. No religion, even Satanism, has even some close to shedding so much blood for their cause.


    well, religious zelotism was in no way limited to Catholicism. infact, if you could look back and get actual records further back, im sure that you would find that Jews killed quite a few back in their day in the name of God. also, this in no way actually takes an issue with the religion itself. there is no part of Catholic doctrin that says "you must kill anyone who does not believe what you do"...infact far from it, it preaches kindness to all, even non-believers. all this takes issue with is corruption of the past. if you look at the time periods these examples are taken from, you will find that people were killing people left and right for just about any reason they could find.

    They also have some very odd traditions. For a long time, Catholics weren't allowed to eat meat, except for fish, on Fridays. If you know your history, you will know that there was no religious motive for the pope of the time to declare that. The reason he did that is because he was trying to help a struggling fish market get back on its feet.
    this rule is still in effect(sorta) for certian times. it has nothing to do with the fish marked, but has to do with sacrificing things you like to show your faith(something i dont personally agree with, but understand)

    There was also a period when they began killing Lutherans. So at that point, they had gone from killing others to killing their own. And they did it in Jesus's name, too.


    yes, its called the inquisition(it was NOT limited to spain, as alot of people think). durring the inquisition many christians were killed, you know why? because they were protistants, and as such were concidered HERITICS. the church at the time thought that something had to be done to "fix" the situation, and hence the inquisitions began.

    We can also remember back to our history class, and how the Catholic church abused its power by having people pay for forgiveness. As a result, they became big, powerful, and above all, oppressive. Greed is one of the 7 deadly sins, and they certainly were guilty of it. Maybe they aren't so "righteous" after all.


    once again you take issue of corrupt people of the past. this really has nothing to do with the religion itself, just greedy bishops and popes from a long time ago. just so you know, the actuall practice was to sell either religious icons or papers saying "this paper forgives you for X sins". the practice was stoped a LONG time ago(middle ages or early renosance if im not mistaken).

    In summary, Christianity preaches blind faith and threatens eternal torture for all of those who don't follow them. That is a textbook scare tactic, and perfect for thought control. It's also a perfect setup for a cruel joke. There have also been countless scientific advances that contradict the Bible that I couldn't remember them all if I devoted my whole life to it.


    i cant really argue with the blind faith part, but i cant really think of any religion that doesnt say "you must believe because it is what you should believe". as far as the erernal torture, im not sure i agree with that, as one can lead a virtious life and not believe in christ...i can hardly see the God of the new testament allowing them to go to hell in that case. also, i cant really think of ANY religion which doesnt say "if you dont believe in my religion bad stuff will happen to you after you die". the whole scientific thing isnt really true. any scientific advances can be explained within the context of the bible with some interpretation(infact, feel free to chalenge me with one).

    You should never just believe in something just because somebody tells you to, especially in religion.


    im definatly with you on this one, and i do think there are some problems with some things within christianity.

    this is not ment as a flame, just offering other opnions/views.
    -8-

    There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary, and those who dont.

  3. #3
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    personally i belive religion itsef is meant to oppress
    look but dont touch
    touch but dont taste
    sacrafice now reap rewards after you die
    notice the main idea of the 10 commandments
    concerns man and god and nothing else
    what about the planet?
    it just sounds like a bunch of crap to me.

  4. #4
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    oh and one more thing how come jesus didnt know the world is round
    if he did he would have said so
    that would be a feat wouldnt it all he would have to do is prove it

  5. #5
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    um...why would Jesus have said the world was round? what could have possibly come out of that other than more people thinking he was crazy? how would you have had him prove it? its not like anybody would have been able to comprehend anything he did to "prove" the world was round...
    -8-

    There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary, and those who dont.

  6. #6
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    stflook - a lot of questions here. Part of my family is Lutheran, part Anglican, part Catholic etc. Iíve gone to many different denominations services and wondered myself at the whole things.

    No one should criticise for asking honest questions. Good post.



    I'm not going to defend Christianity here. If something has value it will defend itself.

    A few points here -

    it was the tree of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. not knowledge itself.

    The Deistic point of view was not to want beings to have something they could not handle and therefore be corrupted with. Consider children being given access to things that could destroy them. Matches? What about firearms, gasoline, pornagraphy, fireworks?

    The fruit was not an apple, that is merely church tradition. No one knows what it was.

    Read that story over and you will see they both did, in fact eat of the fruit.

    Satan does not promise knowledge. Studying satanism shows he promises alternate paths other than Gods.

    The whole issue of God sending his son is illogical. It cannot be understood under normal circumstances. So calld theologians have discussed and argued this forever it seems. Like all matters pertaining to faith it must be accepted. Or not.

    The whole Catholic issues is far too large to cover here but the newly formed Protestants were seen as a threat and the Pope and his advisors felt they had to deal with it. I strongly disagree with them on the matter. The same thing has happened in Islam where Sunnis fought Shias for years. Conflicting interpretations.

    All in all a very discussion oriented thread. Well done.
    Trappedagainbyperfectlogic.

  7. #7
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    Just a little addition.

    First, I never said Adam and Eve ate of an apple. I never specified what they ate. Maybe they did both eat of it, though. I'm no expert on the Bible, so I could very well be wrong. All of this came from my own head. Most of it is not quoted from the Bible, so if you ask me for a passage, you probably won't get one. Some of it is generalized as well, so don't expect a backup quote from the Bible on that, either.


    I think the whole idea of religion as a whole is just a way for people to theorize about those things they don't know. Other religions have proven that time and time again. It also seems that it is a way for people to cope with the fact that they're mortal. Many people cannot cope with the fact that they will not exist for the majority of eternity, so they created religion to tell them that they will have everlasting life in one form or another. That's my theory, anyway.

    If Christians are right, I'm in deeeeep trouble....

  8. #8
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    now i recieved a few negative anti points and I am not to happy about that, and I think it was due to my previous post in this forum. Everyone has their opinion and shouldn't be penalized for voicing it. So I am going to give you what I really think. Take it for what its worth... here it goes...
    What if Jesus was an alien? Half human and half alien, and don't take offense to the word alien, because alien actually means anything that is not to this planet. Say the virgin Mary who supposedly had a "divine conception" we'll just say artificial, because that is possible nowadays. You can take a virgin, take her to the doc, and stick a pop up in her and she is still a virgin. It is possible today to have an immacculate conception with modern science.
    Let's just say she was abducted by aliens and artificially inceminated and returned to Earth. Upon the birth of Jesus Christ, the star that was in the sky that was so big was actually not a star but in fact a ship, an alien ship that was witnessing the birth of the baby.
    having alien powers would explain the kinda stuff he was able to do....
    also what if noah"s ark was a ship but not in the sense that it floated but mabey a space ship
    if think about it and dont believe in aliens
    just think about this how come in the past 150 years we have advanced more in technology
    than we have in the time we have been here.
    well take Thomas Edison and his lightbulb he attempted to make it work over 1000 times
    and if u look at his firs attempt and his last they are identicle
    so it would be safe to say that he knew it would work his problem was to get the fillament to burn.. in my opinion he had to have seen it and copied it. mabey he was abducted and had a light shinning in his face and remembered.
    and the bitch about it is the light bulbs he made are still working to this day.

  9. #9
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    here is a small thought...

    the Chrisitian concept of God is one of a supreme being who is perfect and absolute. a God that is all love, all knowing, perfectly just, and the creator of all things. if this is true, then why did God create Adam and Eve knowing before hand that they would sin against him by eating from the forbidden tree. why did God create the world knowing before hand that many would not follow him and enter hell upon their deaths. why did God create Lucifer if he knew he would turn against him? etc... etc... ill hold off on theodical arguments for now...

    i apologize if i over generalized the Chrisitian conception of the divine... i know many Christians look at God in different ways...

  10. #10
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    Red face My Reaction

    Unlike stflook, I am not a Christian of any sort. Nor can I be considered having a religion of any kind. I don't really know why. I do however, follow my own sort of values and principles... I do have a well balanced set of morals, and therefore have no need of a religion. I censor nothing, and therefore wish not to be censored by anyone nor anything thing. For me, life is for me to live the way I feel fit to, not how a "divine being up above" wishes for me to live. The funny thing about Christianity is the wonderful aspect of "blind worship"... follow me, but NO QUESTIONING! I think stflook made a reference to it in his thread-starting post. I used to go to a chistian facility of worship... actually, I went to two, one general Chrisitian, and a Catholic Church. I didn't like either. I questioned the beliefs of the church when I was in 6th grade, and they didn't like me for it...
    Welcome to Hell , where we have served more than all of the fast food chains put together! And the number grows everyday! Stay tuned!

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