are students criminals?

[The3ntropy]

I would just like to remark this quote:
[QUOTE/]

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

-Thomas Jefferson

[/ENDQUOTE]

[xmaddness]

I completely agree w/ jcmcb, I was a huge pot head growing up through middle/ high and most of college. (and in college I did alot more than just pot) But it wasn't till I got busted and had to quit (drugtests) that I realized how much it affected my overall judgement of life. Back when I was younger (I'm 22 now), I had no clue what the real world was like. Luckily I quit doing drugs before I stepped in. I now know that if I had the judgement then, that I have now, I would have been in Harvard or Oxford.

Honestly I think that they should do drug tests on *all* students that go to a public school. My parents are both teachers and they have to put up with the students that are on drugs that just don't care about school. Some of these students cause a disruption in the learning process for the ones that are trying to learn somthing. Plus the schools where I live (Broward County FL) are way to overcrowded and could use a few less *uncaring* students. Every year taxpayers are paying for these public schools and the students in them. Personnally I don't want to pay for a student that isn't going to care about school. Just my opinion.

[Kezil]

pwaring,

1. Statement (read further before flaming or giving me antipoints):

The govt. requires a warrant to get your password. The warrant requires that you be under criminal investigation for a separate crime and that the police/investigators have probable cause.

2. If the above is true, what is wrong with it? The govt. in every country I can think can look through your diaries if you are suspect and they have probable cause, so why not your computer?

3. If any part of statement 1 is false, please tell me what, and show documentation as proof.
In order to help you on this quest:

homepage for RIPA 2000: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/ripa/ripact.htm
text of RIPA: http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/a...0/20000023.htm
explanatory notes: http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/en/2000en23.htm


*NOTE: My uncle works in computer forensics (formerly for the local Sheriff's Office, now private). I recently watched him find every password and file on a suspect's hard disk (who had previously been found guilty of charges in relation to child pornography) in less than two hours, using just his home computer and a forensics program. As you can imagine, a govt. with supercomputers and highly developed forensics programs should have no trouble finding every password on your system*

[Kain]

I was in the band for several years and every year was subjected to the urine test. I tried getting out of it, but all that ended up doing was getting me suspended from school, with the goverments backing. I have to agree with a post from earlier, about "probable cause" (sorry about spelling) in order to request a urine test be done. I even tried to tell the administration about those I knew were druggies and that only ended up in me being asked for multiple tests from the administration.

My view's, get rid of unwarrented tests.

[Tedob1]

i really don't understand how so many of you can accept this kind of treatment. I refused 3 job offers because they required drug testing. I don't do drugs. if thats not good enough for them, than **** them.

what kind of world is it where a good persons word means nothing because of a few screwed up people. i think the biz world should just learn to deal with it, even the leaders of the united states refused to take these tests, because they thought they were degrading, how can they expect the american people to sit still for it. in this land everyone is supposed to be equal, politicians included.

its not alright for companys to protect their interests at the expense of our pride. i think the school system is just trying to break people in 'right', get everyone used too it. our government is becoming more and more the tool for big biz. IMHO, just say no, to durg testing.

[Terr]

I was fortunate, my school in Hong Kong (US curriculum, language, etc.) was rich/sensitive enough to simply use a less invasive method. You were randomly checked, sure... but they used hair.

"Hair?" you ask? They took a clip of hair (very small amount) and sent it off to be analyzed. Apparently due to the protein structure of your hair they can find evidence of many major drugs months after they may have been used.

And no, it was the hair on your head All of your other hair on your body actually goes through continual shedding, so it wouldn't be much use to take those.

I mean, it's a bit more expensive, sure, but it's a hell of a lot less invasive, detects most common drugs (you don't need olympic-level testing in school, do you?) and it gives you a record of drug use for up to a month in the past. I mean, compare that to urinal testing, and it has everything going for it but the price and the fact that urine testing may expose some of the more obscure drugs.

[D.J.]

as a student, i totally disagree with it. don't we have an amendment that says we are protected against unreasonable searches and seizures? i don't see any probable cause.

[psychosquee]

I personally think that the random testing for school students is complete rubbish. Yes, I know that they think that it is in the best intrest of the student, but in fact it is not. It is an invasion of private matters and ones privacy. I know what it is like to have dogs search my school... next time one them comes near my locker, they are getting a noseful of dried crush Habenero... :-D

[byre]

My 2 cents is that it really isn't that degrading. I agree with Juridian's post that it should be a professional and probably a 3rd party, someone you don't know doing the test. As long as it's a professionally done and by someone I don't know taking a test for something that is illegal anyways isn't that grade of a hit on my freedom. I don't complain when I have to go through metal detectors at the airport or when they have them in schools. If this was random cavity searches that would be going to far but this is just a test that takes a whole 2 seconds of your time.

[Mankan]

It might just be that I'm european and at times have a hard time understanding your american way.

My questions are these:
Aren't drugs illegal in the states?
Isn't the decission to criminalize drugs a democratic decisson, passed by an elected administration?
Isn't the states democratic?

As far as I know, the answer to all of the above is yes. It seems to me, americans in particular are good at bringing up "civil rights" and constitution every time they can't smoke a joint, buy a gun or whatever.

Respect the administration democraticly voted to rule your country. If you don't like it - get into politics and make a change.

I've been politicly involved for years, because I want to make a difference. I do however respect the laws and decissions passed by those who are elected. When you stop respecting them, you stop respecting democracy.

Fact: Drugs are illegal.
Fact: The Bush administration wants to fight drugs.
Fact: Drugs bring more problems than it does good.
Fact: Alot of young people (ie students) use drugs.

I wish it'd be possible to make random drug tests in sweden. Unfortunalty it isn't.

I do understand that it, if done wrong is an invasion of privacy. But drug use, I think, is a crime, not a private issue.

Also note that this is a post more on your reactions, which suprised me, than the actual drug testing. I'd be very interested in a general debate on american/libertarian views on the whole matter of privacy as it is clear to me that we think different of the word "freedom".

Just my two cents though.

Cheers,