April 3rd, 2002, 02:53 PM
New 9/11 conspiracy-theory
The last couple of days, a new 9/11 conspiracy-theory emerged on the net ( http://www.thepowerhour.com/postings...t.htm#Part%20I, http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero...ne/erreurs.htm and http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero...gone/index.htm ), stating that not a Boeing 757 from American Airlines, but another 'flying object' (an F-16? SuperMan? A truck loaded with explosive?) penetrated the Pentagon. It's an interesting read, but what I found more entertaining, was their 'conspiracy theory'-reasoning:
Now THAT's what I call a conspiracy....
The term "conspiracy theory" consists of two words, the active word being "theory". By definition, a theory is a concept, an idea, a proposal, a supposition. Example: "In theory, if I purchase a raffle ticket, I could win the prize." However, once the first ticket is purchased, winning is no longer a theory, but rather a possibility. The more tickets that are purchased, the more possible and eventually probable the win becomes. The same can be said about a conspiracy theory. As long as there is no evidence to support the conspiracy theory, it remains a theory. Once however there is one piece of evidence to support the theory, no matter how flimsy or circumstantial it may be, the conspiracy is no longer a theory, but a possibility! And the more evidence there is that is gathered, the more possible and eventually probable the conspiracy becomes.
April 3rd, 2002, 03:47 PM
Neg - I like your sig. 911 has many c -theories but still the facts we know are all there is as yet. I'm concerned about Europe now that they EU prez is getting involved in the Israeli-Palestinian situation.
April 3rd, 2002, 10:39 PM
What I love about these theories is how many people would have to be involved in the cover up. As I was at the Pentagon during the clean up I guess that includes me now...
So as offical spokes entity for the conspiracy, we deny all....
- Jimmy Mac
Replicants are like any technology, if there not a hazard, its not my problem....
April 5th, 2002, 06:43 AM
well... whether this is true or a cover up... it brings up some really interesting/viable points. and sadly you never know what could have happened, unless you were there... definitely interesting stuff... nice post negative
Learn like you are going to live forever, live like you are going to die tomorrow.
April 5th, 2002, 07:07 AM
The pictures do make for an interesting argument. If a boeing 757 did hit the Pentagon there seems to be very little evidence to support that theory. Where's all the wreckage?
Here's a cut and paste from one of the sites...
Can you explain how a Boeing 14.9 yards high, 51.7 yards long, with a wingspan of 41.6 yards and a cockpit 3.8 yards high, could crash into just the ground floor of this building?
Good point. Not to mention the speed it would have been travelling at on it's descent..
Anyway, we'll never know the real story. It's good to see people questioning what the media spoon feeds us...Open your eyes people.
April 5th, 2002, 07:21 AM
Anyone else notice that in the first link negative posted the third pic down looks like all the firetrucks etc are toys? I dunno they just seem to bright kinda false....anyone else think theres something weird with it?
Apart form that tis a scary proposal - would the american goverment kill so many people just to be able to begin a war on terrorism and take away people's rights?
April 5th, 2002, 07:48 AM
Actually, I don't see the problem. The wreckage would not be clearly visible among the other debris, nor would it be in large pieces, due to the impact speed. And the damaged area does look smallish in my uninformed opinion, but so did the areas on the WTC.
Elen alcarin ar gwath halla ná engwar.
April 5th, 2002, 06:28 PM
That first link is off on some numbers, and they didn't do any facts checking.
According to http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/pentagon/facts.html (a site I found after a quick search at google for size of pentagon), the height of the building is 77ft, not 58. That's a large discrepancy. Also, their calculations on the image are off by six feet (an allowable margin, but they should provice a higher-resolution image, IMO).
. Notice the size of the demolished area. The Pentagon is four stories high, and if each story is 10-12ft in height, and the added height for the roof area is another 10ft., the total height of the building would be approximately 58ft. The width of the hole according to this and other photos would be about 60-65ft.
Width of the side of the Pentagon in picture: 166 Pixels
Width of the side of the Pentagon in reality: 941 feet
Width Ratio: 5.6686746987951807228915662650602 ft / pixel
Width of the 757 in picture: 23 pixels
Width of the 757 in reality: 124 feet
Width of the 757 According to picture: 130.38 feet (rounded to two decimals)
Width Ratio (should match above): 5.3913043478260869565217391304348
They also do not take into account the fact that Jets store all their fuel in their wings. Many many plane crashes do not involve having the wings as even remotely identifiable, as they are incinerated in the blast of all the jet fuel exploding. If you watch the planes crashing into the WTC, the wings themselves only break windows and do some minor structural damage, but then break and spill the fuel into the buildings.
Anyways, some other statistics about the Pentagon (from the site mentioned above):
Prime contract awarded 11 August 1941
Mechanical engineering contract awarded 3 September 1941
Construction began 11 September 1941 (Coincidence, or planning by the terrorists?)
Grading contract awarded 24 September 1941
First occupants move in 29 April 1942
Construction completed 15 January 1943
Total Land Area (acres) 583
Government Owned (acres) 296
Purchased or condemned (acres) 287
Area covered by Pentagon bldg (acres) 29
Area of center court (acres) 5
Area of heating and refrigeration plant (acres) 1
Area of sewage structures (acres) 1
Access highways built (miles) 30
Overpasses and bridges built 21
Parking space (acres) 67
Capacity (vehicles) 8,770
Cost of building $49,600,000
Total cost of project (including outside facilities) $83,000,000
Gross floor area (sq. ft.) 6,636,360
Net space for offices, concessions and storage (sq. ft.) 3,705,793
Cubic contents (cu. ft.) 77,015,000
Length of each outer wall (ft.) 921
Height of building (ft.) 77' 3.5"
Number of floors, plus mezzanine and basement 5
Total length of corridors (miles) 17.5
It's a large building, so I don't see why it's so unbelievable to conceive that it was a 757 that crashed into it. Especially considering the damage which is visible to the ground just in front of the building on that same image. I think what happened is that the plane hit the ground before the building, blowing up the fuel prematurely, and thus only damaging the outside of the building, while the passenger compartment careened into the building itself. This explains the fact that the hole is only roughly 75-80 feet wide, and why there is so much damage down the whole wall of the building (the burning jet fuel would have exploded blackening that whole piece of the building).
A good counterpoint I have is that if Flight 77 (which WAS a boeing 757) didn't crash into the Pentagon, where did it go? Why has there been no news report about Flight 77 showing up elsewhere. The media would not simply ignore that kind of thing.
The site is great on the surface, but when you examine the facts that they intentionally leave out, it's about as solid and stable as a marshmallow building.
The Nelson-Shepherd cutoff: The point at which you realise someone is an idiot while trying to help them.
\"Well as far as the spelling, I speak fluently both your native languages. Do you even can try spell mine ?\" -- Failed Insult
Is your whole family retarded, or did they just catch it from you?
April 5th, 2002, 07:39 PM
Now they are hijacking reason. I'm not gonna go off on this but I'd have to say look at those pretty pictures. A picture is worth a thousand words, but I'd have to say that those are the wrong words.
The simple fact that a plane that size carries that amount of fuel do you expect anything left over.
BTW - It hit the ground first, and the Pntagon is built like a brick $hit house so I'd expect the damage to be exactly what it was.
P.S. Yeah, I know, I'm fooling myself. PFFFT!!
Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant than would take even a little trouble to acquire it.
- Samuel Johnson
April 5th, 2002, 08:16 PM
I don't believe in this conspiracy. I saw early photos and there was plane debris in them.