Some times violence is the answer.
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Thread: Some times violence is the answer.

  1. #1
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    Some times violence is the answer.

    Hey, it's Holocaust Remembrance Week

    Check out this link

    I know, you've heard it a million times before.
    Faced with something like the NAZI phenomenon,
    is it justifiable to respond with force?

    The bombing of Dresden

    But, on the other hand...
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

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    i think that al depends on your point of view... the nazi's were wrong, yes. but on the other hand, whose job is it to step in. all over the world there are people getting killed for the same reason, but these are third world countries and no one cares. i can not completely say one way or the other, but whose right is it to act violently.... and violence could have been avoided if things were nipped in the bud early through non-violent means. potentially anything could be stopped non-violently. i see violence as only necessary for self defense when all other means are exhausted... many of the countries involved were not defending themselves but others... a noble cause but slightly hypocritical. i think in the cse of the nazi's and hitler, violence prolly was the only answer, but only because it was too late when anyone tried to do anything about it.

    and don't get me started about the holocaust... there are some crazy idea about that circulating.
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    This is a hard one. But I think sometimes we are called to combat evil with force. The biggest dilemna is how to combat evil without becoming evil yourself. Jesus said to "turn the other cheek." But that doesn't mean to let your wife be raped or to let an evil government slaughter other people. It's a hard call. No doubt about that.
    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    (Romans 6:23, WEB)

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    Re: Some times violence is the answer.

    Originally posted here by rcgreen
    Hey, it's Holocaust Remembrance Week

    Check out this link

    I know, you've heard it a million times before.
    Faced with something like the NAZI phenomenon,
    is it justifiable to respond with force?

    The bombing of Dresden

    But, on the other hand...
    I belive in minimum force at all times. Force may be used when there is no other way to avoid the thread to you or someone that can't respond with the force necessary to avoid an attack.

    When someone threatens the democracy with force I belive it is justifiable to respond with the force necessary. The same goes for using force on other nations that reigns its population in an undemocratic way.

    I to not think, however that it is justifieble to bash nazis just cause they're nazis. Even though I want to. Badly.

    Cheers,
    Mankan

    \"The purpose of abstraction is not to be vague, but to create a new semantic level in which one can be absolutely precise.\"
    - Edsger Dijkstra

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    When someone threatens the democracy with force I belive it is justifiable to respond with the force necessary. The same goes for using force on other nations that reigns its population in an undemocratic way.
    just curious here... what makes democracy the only right way? who decided that a nation has to riegn over it's people democratically? every nation has the right to choose it's form of government. no one has the right to judge.
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    in one respect your right. every nation should be allowed to decide for itself, but a nation consists of its people. a nation is not the one in ten thousand that has a gun. if a government does not represent the wishs of the people, but rather is opposed to what they want and oppresses their wants and needs with violence, its a crime against the human race.

    i believe you answered your own question here:

    -------------------------------------

    every nation has the right to choose it's form of government.

    -------------------------------------

    people choosing for themselves what their government will be is democracy, even if the form of gov. they choose is not democratic.
    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”

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    just for those who wont read the bombing of dresden article here is the deal:
    durring WWII the alies decided that they werent being successfull, and they needed to break Germany's will to fight. to do this they picked a city in germany(Dresden) of incredible artistic signifigance and bombed it with white phosforus(sp?). they completely leveled the city. for those of you not familiar with those bombs, they are fire bombs...they fall then burn increadibly hot so there were some very painfull deaths involved(burning to death is not fun).

    last simester i played a suite called "In Memorium of Dresden". that was the most emotional concert i've ever been a part of. knowing the back story, it is probably the single most powerfull piece of music i've ever heard, actually nearly brought me to tears on stage.
    -8-

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    Originally posted here by lord_darkside_x


    just curious here... what makes democracy the only right way? who decided that a nation has to riegn over it's people democratically? every nation has the right to choose it's form of government. no one has the right to judge.
    The thing is, democracy is the only form of government that [I]lets its people choose their form of government. Theoretically, I guess the best form of government would be a benevolent monarchy where the king always does what is right for his people. Of course, because of the evil in human hearts, we won't see that until Christ comes and sets up his kingdom.

    About the bombing of Dresden: often when people think of World War II they think of the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But if I remember correctly, huge numbers of people were killed in Europe by conventional bombing. I could be wrong, but I think more people were killed in the fire bombing of Tokyo than were killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If a government leader nowadays advocated bombing population centers they would be rightly turned out of office (at least I hope so).

    I look forward to Christ's return when he will put an end to all war.
    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    (Romans 6:23, WEB)

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    well i agree that democracy is the best form and humans have rights.but say a country has a dictator in power, what makes it our right to go tell them to do otherwise? we have no right, just because we have a democracy doesn't mean everyone else should. and you know what... we used to be under a form of overnment we didn't like... when the english were in control. we freed ourselves, no one came and freed us. also. look at this example, in afganastan, the taliban was in control, they were mean and evil, but they provided structure to the people. now many of the citizens after being free, don't like the responsibility... they miss the structure. i think it is best to let things play out as they should sometimes nad that it is not our right or anyones to say one form of gavernment is the only way to be.

    ps- it is pretty hypocritical for america to "fight for democracy" and try to force people into a democratic government. AMERICA does not even HAVE a TRUE democracy.
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    Originally posted here by lord_darkside_x
    well i agree that democracy is the best form and humans have rights.but say a country has a dictator in power, what makes it our right to go tell them to do otherwise? we have no right, just because we have a democracy doesn't mean everyone else should. and you know what... we used to be under a form of overnment we didn't like... when the english were in control. we freed ourselves, no one came and freed us. also. look at this example, in afganastan, the taliban was in control, they were mean and evil, but they provided structure to the people. now many of the citizens after being free, don't like the responsibility... they miss the structure. i think it is best to let things play out as they should sometimes nad that it is not our right or anyones to say one form of gavernment is the only way to be.

    ps- it is pretty hypocritical for america to "fight for democracy" and try to force people into a democratic government. AMERICA does not even HAVE a TRUE democracy.
    When two people fight in a bar. I belive I have the right to step in and break them up so they don't hurt each other.
    When I come across something illegal, I belive I have the right to step in and make a citizens arrest.
    When I see someone that can't fight for themselfs - a woman beeing abused by a man, an old man beeing robbed or whatever, I belive I have a right to step in and fight for them.

    These are all situations where a judgement call is made based on moral principles and then acted upon.

    I belive the same principles can be applied in politics or warfare. When something is downright evil, you always have the right to step in, take control and make it right.

    The only thing to keep in mind here, I belive, is that the morality is different in different parts of the world and we have no right what so ever to step in anywhere just because we think something is wrong. There are however a declaration of human rights which I think most of the civilized wrold can agree to and these should be acted upon.

    Anyway, I think you know what I mean so I'll just end here and go make some pasta or something

    Cheers,
    Mankan

    \"The purpose of abstraction is not to be vague, but to create a new semantic level in which one can be absolutely precise.\"
    - Edsger Dijkstra

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