Right and Wrong

[preacherman481]

Hi Secret Fire,
Well, RC was asking, "Do right and wrong exist as objective qualities above and outside all human authority?" I believe they do because God sets the standards for right and wrong. Before they are "inherent qualities" they are standards set by God. God's will sets the standard for right and wrong whether anyone believes in Him or not. God's will doesn't increase or decrease in importance or truth because we believe in Him or not.

[Dr Toker]

Originally posted here by thesecretfire
Preacherman481, not everyone believes in god, as far as I'm concerned the 10 commandments are just reccomendations in a book. And according to what you say, moral standards are determind by god, which thus makes them laws set down by someone else, as opposed to inherent qualities.

Okay, I expect this responce from most people. But like Preach said, it really doesnt matter if you belive in him or not....well in a sence. But It states in the Bible that God has put eternity in our hearts. At one point in your life, God revealed himself to you. "Behold I stand at the door and knock...." I wonder how long he will knock.

Anyways, getting back on track here. Right and wrong. We all know what it is. There are some really obviouse wrongs in the world. We all "FEEL" if we were to kill someone, thats wrong.We also "FEEL" guilty when we do something we know were not supposed to do....Stealing from people, lying, ect.. You know why you FEEL bad? Its called a concience.
Your concience tells you what is right and wrong. You gotta wonder where did that come from.
Maybe it developed over time, because repeated training from your parents. Or maybe it was placed in your heart when you were born. I leave that up to you.

But where the problem lies, is when people make excuses, and make themselves feel better about what their doing. So Their concience, is dulled and deformed. But at one time you knew.
You did. And now we make excuses for what we do. I make an excuse for my marijuana habit every day prolly. I know its wrong. I can admit that. BUt i can say after years of excuses for my habit, my conciouse has become a little dull. And that is a dangerouse place to be.

[jcmcb]

It seems to me that there are certain absolute right/wrong actions in this world. Depriving a person of life, liberty, or the persuit of happiness are good examples of wrong. These are not created by a group and handed out to its members, but are universal constants that all sentient creatures have in common...

Now the question is where do these laws come from? God? Clearly that cannot be the answer, as most people come up with similar answers (Thou Shall not Kill to quote the Juedo-Christian tradition), yet have different gods and differ in many important respects (the Juedo-Christian prohibetion on eating "rock badgers" for one).... So unless god is all gods at the same time (somehting our Christian friends I think would disagree with) then god cannot be the answer....

[str34m3r]

I'm not all that familiar with the rock badger rule.

[lord_darkside_x]

It seems to me that there are certain absolute right/wrong actions in this world. Depriving a person of life, liberty, or the persuit of happiness are good examples of wrong.

this is in your opinion... and in american culture this is true. in other cultures however they may or may not agree with you. there are plenty of people in the middle east that feel that they have no rights. this is a cultural belief. i know this is what some of them believe because i am friends with people that used to live there. you can not say that freedom is an absolute right. depriving someone of that is not absolutely wrong. there is no one thing that is absolutely right, there is only things that are right at the time, or right from your point of view. perspective is the ultimate equalizer.

[Dr Toker]

I think perspective is the ultimate evil.

[lord_darkside_x]

preacher> you can't really use god as a substantial arguement though. cause belief in god is required for people to agree that god's law is the ultimate good. without faith, the arguement crumbles. if i told you the ultimate good was some thing that the invisible pink rabbit says, but you don't believe in said rabbit, would you agree?

[preacherman481]

Originally posted here by lord_darkside_x
preacher> you can't really use god as a substantial arguement though. cause belief in god is required for people to agree that god's law is the ultimate good. without faith, the arguement crumbles. if i told you the ultimate good was some thing that the invisible pink rabbit says, but you don't believe in said rabbit, would you agree?

I hear what you're saying, but the truth is the truth whether or not anyone believes it. It is not dependent on our belief or unbelief.

[thesecretfire]

Originally posted here by preacherman481


I hear what you're saying, but the truth is the truth whether or not anyone believes it. It is not dependent on our belief or unbelief.

God does not exist. Your mind created the concept when it tried to explain certain things, and due to the environment you grew up in, the concept has stuck. God is an explanation that seems to work for a lot of people, but at the same time has caused a massive amount of pain and struggle.

[preacherman481]

Originally posted here by thesecretfire

God does not exist. Your mind created the concept when it tried to explain certain things, and due to the environment you grew up in, the concept has stuck. God is an explanation that seems to work for a lot of people, but at the same time has caused a massive amount of pain and struggle.

Actually, the world would be a lot easier to explain if it weren't for God. Without God I wouldn't be faced with questions of making moral decisions and making sense of the evil and suffering going on around me. And I know God and religion have been used as excuses for wars and the like for a long time. But people would have found some other reason to kill one another without God. And how, can you be so sure God does not exist?