Unethical Spying...
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  1. #1
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    Unethical Spying...

    Bah! This is as stupid as it is scary, Now the *****ing FBI can watch you in churches and they dont need evidence, This is bullshit..... Big Brother is watching!



    FBI Given More Latitude
    New Surveillance Rules Remove Evidence Hurdle
    By Susan Schmidt and Dan Eggen
    Washington Post Staff Writers
    Thursday, May 30, 2002; Page A01
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002May29.html

    New Justice Department guidelines to be unveiled today will give FBI agents latitude to monitor Internet sites, libraries and religious institutions without first having to offer evidence of potential criminal activity, officials said yesterday.

    The changes, part of the Justice Department's effort to mount a proactive war on terror, will mark a significant change for the FBI. While agents have been permitted in the past to conduct such surveillance if they had specific information, they have been loath to do so because of confusion about what was actually permitted, law enforcement officials said.

    Justice Department and FBI officials said the guidelines will remove serious barriers to the prevention of terrorism.

    "The concern is when we're confronted with people like [Zacarias] Moussaoui, or even some of the hijackers, who are known to spend substantial periods of time in mosques or other similar situations, it is very difficult to find out what they're up to," said one senior law enforcement official.

    Terrorist organizations operating in this country have sometimes used mosques as recruiting grounds and gathering places. Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, the blind Egyptian cleric now imprisoned for his role in the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center, built a radical following with links to al Qaeda while preaching at mosques in Brooklyn and Jersey City, for example.

    But as word of the new guidelines circulated yesterday, some civil liberties groups expressed fears of a Big Brother government monitoring its citizens.

    "The FBI is now telling the American people, 'You no longer have to do anything unlawful in order to get that knock on the door,' " said Laura Murphy, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Washington office. "You can be doing a prefectly legal activity like worshiping or talking in a chat room, they can spy on you anyway."

    The new guidelines state simply that FBI agents may enter public places and forums, including publicly accessible Internet sites, to observe, develop leads and investigate. The guidelines do not specifically mention religious institutions, but a senior Justice Department official said last night that the impact of the changes will be dramatic in allowing the FBI to open a window on extremist activity in mosques.

    "These are open places," he said. Now, "just because they are FBI agents, they don't have to turn a blind eye to activities visible to other people."

    Under guidelines that have been in place for several decades, the FBI has not been permitted to send investigators into religious settings unless the agents can establish they are following a lead, or conducting an investigation or preliminary inquiry. As a practical matter, the Justice Department official said, "agents mistakenly think they have to stop at the church door."

    In a written description of the guideline changes made available yesterday, Attorney General John D. Ashcroft stated that the department needs to be able to "proactively draw on available sources of information to identify terrorist threats and activities." In the past, he said, the FBI has been a reactive body, and the guidelines "generally barred the FBI from taking the initiative unless leads as to possible criminal activity or even more substantial evidence of crimes happened to come to the FBI from external sources."

    The new rules will allow agents to surf the Internet for Web sites that might give hints to terrorist activity, according to the description. The new guidelines will allow investigators to seek out and "identify sites and forums in which bomb-making instructions, preparations for cyberterrorism, child pornography, and stolen credit card information are openly traded and disseminated."

    Under the existing policy, agents could pursue online searches only when they could characterize them as checking leads or otherwise furthering an ongoing investigation.

    "Pure surfing or searching for the purpose of initially developing leads was not allowed, even in relation to publicly available information that anyone else is free to access and observe," according to the new policy statement.

    Agents will also be permitted to do topical research not directly related to a specific crime under the new guidelines, such as research on a biological agent.

    The ACLU's Murphy said, however, that the new guidelines could open the door to the same kind of problems evident in the FBI's aggressive surveillance and harassment of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

    Several other aspects of the new guidelines, disclosed earlier this week, will move some decision-making authority from FBI headquarters to field offices around the country. FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III acknowledged yesterday that changes must be made to counter bureaucratic inertia at headquarters that led to missed clues in the Sept. 11 attacks.

    Under the new guidelines, field office directors will be allowed to launch terrorism investigations and undercover probes without clearance from headquarters.

    The guidelines are an outgrowth of privacy laws that prohibit the government from collecting information except for law enforcement purposes. In the past, the government developed information on specific cases but now needs broader intelligence to prevent terrorist acts.

  2. #2
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    Dose this mean we have to watch what we say in confessionals because they might be buged?
    WWJD
    What Would Jesus Do (For a klondike Bar?)

  3. #3
    Priapistic Monk KorpDeath's Avatar
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    You know what, we differ on this one. Maybe it's because I don't worship in a church (or mosque) but if anybody else can stand around and find out pertinent information that has to do with terrorist activity then I say the FBI should be able to also. I believe in your right to worship, but not if it infringes on MY rights to live a life, you know. People have been hiding behind religion for too long and know we are only scraping the tip of the iceberg with all of the priests wrongdoings and what not. this isn't about screwing the little guy, this isn't about infringing on your rights, we've got a serious threat here and they are willing to use our own system against us, I, for one, don't want another Phoenix memo to go unnoticed....

    I hope I got my point across without rambling too much but I'm a firm believer in brevity.
    Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant than would take even a little trouble to acquire it.
    - Samuel Johnson

  4. #4
    Senior Member cwk9's Avatar
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    Any one ever see the episode of the Simons were the cop was hiding in the confession both.

    :gets in confession both
    Smithers: I shot Mr. burns
    :cop opens little window and points a gun at his head
    Cop: this thing works great.
    Its not software piracy. Iím just making multiple off site backups.

  5. #5
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    From what I understand from hearing about this on the ABC news tonight, the former restrictions were self-imposed guidelines within the FBI anyway. They have always been legally able to do this, but have had internal guidelines against it.
    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    (Romans 6:23, WEB)

  6. #6
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Article IV.
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    http://www.law.emory.edu/FEDERAL/usc...end.html#art-4
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

  7. #7
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    Im with you KorpDeath.

    All of the terrible wars, terrorist acts are nearly all motivated by religion, and this has been happening for thousands of years. I think that the FBI have the opinion of "where there is smoke, there is fire".

    I whole heartedly agree with the FBI monitoring places of worship etc. if it is going to cease religous fanatics causing more suffering for innocent people.
    SoggyBottom.

    [glowpurple]There were so many fewer questions when the stars where still just the holes to heaven - JJ[/glowpurple] [gloworange]I sure could use a vacation from this bull$hit, three ringed circus side show of freaks. - Tool. [/gloworange]

  8. #8
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    i can understand why they would give them this broder power but i must say i dont like it one bit
    what is love but contempt for hate?

  9. #9
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    wow aint that some s^^^t is nothing sacred ?
    By the sacred **** of the sacred psychedelic tibetan yeti ....We\'ll smoke the chinese out
    The 20th century pharoes have the slaves demanding work
    http://muaythaiscotland.com/

  10. #10
    Priapistic Monk KorpDeath's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by prodikal
    wow aint that some s^^^t is nothing sacred ?
    Not if it directly affects me or my family, friends, neighbors, or country. There should be no place for these dirtbags to hide. Anyway, not to be so gloom. Hopefully the FBI will do some now.....hehehe
    Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant than would take even a little trouble to acquire it.
    - Samuel Johnson

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