Jose Padilla's civil rights
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Thread: Jose Padilla's civil rights

  1. #1
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    Angry Jose Padilla's civil rights

    Okay, probably most of you have heard about Jose Padilla and his alleged plans to carry out a "dirty bomb" attack on the US. If you haven't, check pretty much any newspaper for details. Anyway, the U.S. government is holding him in a military prison while denying him the civil rights allotted to him by the US constitution. The constitution clearly states that the government may not take away any citizen's life, liberty, or property without due process of law-- it's in the fifth amendment. This is exactly what the Bush administration is doing right now. Padilla is a citizen of the United States, whether or not he is a terrorist. I understand that in this case, it probably saved thousands of lives to detain this man unlawfully, but if he is indeed guilty then what harm could it do to give him a trial or at least a hearing? Bush has declared him an "enemy combatant" and has used this to rationalize this decision.
    The problem is that if Bush can do that to Padilla, he can do it to just about anyone. I am by no means a supporter of Padilla; I think he's probably getting what he deserves. But in the future, say some political activist is openly bashing the president and he doesn't like it. All he has to do is declare this individual an "enemy combatant" and he can hold this individual indefinitely without any sort of trial. This situation is almost Orwellian in nature. The constitution gives no provision for the use of this "enemy combatant" b.s. except to say that the president can do stuff like that if it's necessary. We shouldn't repeat the stupidity that we showed when we allowed the US government to put Japanese-Americans in internment camps in the second world war. This is actually a worse situation anyway- the President can do this to any individual on a mere whim.
    Who knows who the next person- the next VICTIM- is going to be? We should put a stop to this. At least give the moron a trial before you give him the death penalty... Otherwise, we may find that in the future, the constitution is meaningless.

  2. #2
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    Well since the war on Terrorism, the government has been invading more of people's privacy and rights etc. offcourse they use the excuse "it's in the best interest of the nations safety etc etc."

  3. #3
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    He opposed America's entrance into World War I and denounced the Espionage Act designed to silence all antiwar sentiment. In 1918, he received a 10-year prison sentence for his public opposition to the war. At his trial, Debs admitted he spoke the words the federal government considered traitorous and addressed the jury in his own defense. "I am doing what little I can to do away with the rule of the great body of people by a relatively small class and establish in this country industrial and social democracy." A guilty verdict sent Debs to the federal prison in Atlanta.
    http://www.ibiscom.com/vodebs.htm

    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

  4. #4
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    the other excuse that they are using is that he was committing treason and other "War crimes" when someone commits a war crime, they end up waving all rights. this is not always through legal process, but it happens.
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  5. #5
    AntiOnline Senior Medicine Man
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    One would assume an Enemy of the People of the United States of America would lack the Civil Rights of the people he hates.
    It is better to be HATED for who you are, than LOVED for who you are NOT.

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    If lawyers get a hold of him he'll go free. There’s no hard evidence against him and the witnesses that would have to be produced and the methods that they used would have to be displayed in public to convict him. This would hurt our intelligence efforts more than his conviction would help anything.

    Now if lawyers set him free, this would put the government in a position where they could amend the law to prevent things like this from happening again. That would not be good.

    Most Americans do not want him released and would support the people who would take away our rights and freedoms in the name of 911. Lets not forget that the majority seem to believe, at this time, giving up their rights and freedoms is in the interest of national security. Everyday people don’t have the time or the inclination to investigate things for themselves and get their information by osmosis, sitting in front of the TV or having a radio on in the car, which they’re really not paying attention too. This is the way of the 21st century ministry of truth.

    Jose Padilla is not working for non violent political reform nor is he an innocent bystander as the Japanese-American were. The people who fought these injustices fought a valiant fight and helped to secure our freedoms. But banners for freedom and justice were not picked up for the cases that would have hurt this cause.

    Were fighting a battle now to keep our rights and freedoms, which are being re-defined as we speak. In this case, discretion is the better part of valor.

    Jose Padilla not only wants to kill us he’s part of a plot to destroy our way of life. Force this issue and he'll have won.
    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”

  7. #7
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    At this point, we don't know anything about Jose Padilla
    but what the government says. In fact, one government agency,
    a federal court, found no grounds to hold him.
    Have we come to the place where we are ready to assume
    his guilt without proof?

    When someone can act so high-handedly that they can declare
    someone to be an enemy of the people, and we consider
    the accusation to be the proof, then who is safe?

    Are we so patriotic that we don't care about the constitution?
    Congress has not declared war, so there is no war, and
    there are no "enemy combatants"

    If Jose Padilla is a criminal, I say prove it in a court of law.
    If we are at war, let's fight it on enemy soil, against
    the enemy, and not start a civil war here at home.
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

  8. #8
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    Originally posted here by Tedob1
    If lawyers get a hold of him he'll go free. There’s no hard evidence against him and the witnesses that would have to be produced and the methods that they used would have to be displayed in public to convict him. This would hurt our intelligence efforts more than his conviction would help anything.
    So there's no hard evidence against him. Now, I'm not a lawyer, but it does maybe kinda seem like maybe he should be released then</sarcasm>
    Of course he should be released. There are no charges, there is no evidence, he should not be held. Calling him a prisoner of war is a massive abuse of the law and really says something about the american government.
    Elen alcarin ar gwath halla ná engwar.

  9. #9
    AntiOnline Senior Medicine Man
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    Unfortunatly RcGreen, the war was brought to US soil. This is a war like no-other we have faced before. We are fighting people, malicia's, and religiouse groups. Not a country like traditional warfare. There is no set enemy. So I really think The USA should go gung ho with this. I mean heres my ****in policy. You may not like it.

    Lets say a terrorist attacks, from Pakistan. Okay, we lose X number of Citizens, and representatives. We DEMAND that these Terrorist groups be brought to us by Deadline Y.
    If they are not brought to us, then we go get em' Isreali style.

    Its okay I desearve to "balanced"
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  10. #10
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    Well he is a US citizen...and I remember Mr Asscroft, saying that tribunals would only be used against Non-citizens. Which would include "secret" evidence etc etc,and never have to be disclosed. And he was arrested in May for crying out loud, it's damage control. Everytime, someone gets curious, Mr Ridge goes on TV Asscroft from MOSCOW, and raises the "threat" level. Hogwash. They do not have a case.
    I suggest anyone who's interested, read these.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...669963,00.html
    http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?...&group=webcast
    http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=99402
    http://www.nwc.navy.mil/srd/Reports/Garmisch_Report.htm
    http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?...&group=webcast
    \"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.\" -- Dom Helder Camara

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