July 26th, 2002, 07:57 PM
Originally posted here by jethro
I don't hate America, it's just that I always see in the movies, these guys saying "America is the greatest country in the world!". Maybe economically that's true, but it's just annoying to hear Hollywood drill their patriotic theory into us non-American folk.
Just my opinion.
I have to agree about us always patting ourselves on the back and saying how great we are. That's unfortunate that we don't really consider other countries as good. I agree with the points that sometimes it's better to be just a little more humble.
Bimmer's comments about being from the Middle East is well taken, and even heard. Buy why is it that everytime an Arab person speaks he is filled with so much anger? I am American of Italian and Arab decsent... (only a small party =)) However, America is made up of so many different people. Everything from Arabs, Africans, Mexicans, Chineese - we can go on forever. America is not as bad as the world thinks.
It's a good place to live... is it the best? Who knows..most Americans have not travelled as much as other people from other countries. I have been to many countries and I sort of like New Zealand, but I still like the good old USA.
Another thing is why do so many people from other countries come to the US and bitch about it? GO BACK!
July 26th, 2002, 10:59 PM
Well, just my 2 cents worth (as a newbe)
I have lived to see what I grew up in, taught in history at school. I can remember that the USofA was in a particular state of mind BEFORE WW I and also BEFORE WW II. That state was isolationism - that which many of you are saying we should go back into. WRONG.
We as Americans should stand up for our rights - whatever they are - and believe that others can stand up for theirs also. That is what US of A is all about. But, to be able to do this, we need to have an understanding attitude toward the other view, not an I agree but a your belief, my belief, we can be cool attitude.
Where else in the world can a person stand on a corner and say what he/she wants and only worry about getting talked down, not going to prison or shot. You can talk down the US of A and still live here, now that is hypocracy. If you don't like it, leave. If you do like it, don't talk it down.
Also, if Islam is so good for *sharing the wealth*, why are they so many poor, homeless people in Islamic countries? Why is the Shaw of ? so rich? So on and so on.....
Sure, we have it here also, but we all know that is the way it is here and we have a chance to better ourselves to some degree. The only way the suicide bombers have and the terrorists have and the *True Believers* have is to kill themselves to make a point and let their leaders live on to cause another to sacrifice for what?
Blind patriotism is not good no matter what you are a patriot to. Look at the Nazi Party, ;the Rep of the Congo, Nicaragua, and the list goes on. We all need to have light to see the path, and that light comes to each from a different source. At least in America, those sources can all be found here.
At any rate, we try and you try and we all try. We all grow up at a different rate, but we do grow up.
Sorry, I am not religion bashing. All beliefs in God, Allah, or whatever name you give Him is necessary for man. He is real and ever-living. I choose to believe in Jesus, thank you and feel you should also, but I won't kill you to make you believe my way.
Help America be FREE - use Open-Source
even if you view it through Windows
July 27th, 2002, 02:16 AM
I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but it was god
who invented genocide.
But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.
If you are tempted to condemn the almighty for violating your standard
of morality, think twice. He's a lot bigger and meaner than you are.
Pick a fight with your creator and you will lose.
I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.
July 27th, 2002, 05:25 PM
i want to adress a comment i recieved in my antipoints....
the comment was that the taliban didn't care about the innocents they killed at wtc, so why should we care about the innocent afghans...
now, first... i agree the taliban didn't care... but doeas that make it right? does it justify more death to innocent people? i don't think that it does. if it does justify it, then we shouldn't have cared about wtc, because that started from the death of innocent people elsewhere. just because our innocents died, it doesn't mean that we should punish innocents somewhere else. if anyone should pay, it should be the people who committed the act, not civilians who had nothing to do with nor had any knowledge of the attacks. maybe if americans could understnad that instead of only looking at things as, "i am an american. my people died, so now someone else needs to die, i don't care who, blowing people up solves the problem." and would start looking at the deaths as people, as human life, which is a sacred thing, maybe we wouldn't have the problems we have now... who are any of us that we can decide who deserves to live and die. i wouldn't want that on my consciencs that's for sure
Learn like you are going to live forever, live like you are going to die tomorrow.
July 27th, 2002, 05:56 PM
i don't think anyone here can name a war where innocent lives were not lost...
civilians are always going to die in these situations... to say these pilots killed a wedding party on purpose or for revenge, I don't know(I can see how a mistake like that can be made, a jet traveling a 560mph or faster 2000ft off the deck a group of people can look like a small platoon). when most countries fight it start with one country invading another and the 2 armys fight, then as the war progresses, civilians get caught in the middle. Osama targeted American civilians to start war with the U.S.A! In my opinion, I think the leaders of the world should fight if they truly claim to represent the people! how soon would we have peace! we wouldn't need jets and tanks that money could be spent on schools, food and medicines!
July 28th, 2002, 08:50 AM
woah woah, now thats some questionable stuff if i have ever seen any. power and knowledge are coproductive, those in power(the hebrew elite) were able to produce knowledge(gods will is to do this and that) which in turn produced more power(people willign to slaughter innocents for the sake of the hebrew nation). so signs to look for to determine if a biblical passage is just a power play
1. if the all loving god is making an order to kill people
2. most of the old testament (especially the historical parts)
on the subject of the united states: i am not going to make any comparisons to other countries because really complacent way to do things. example:
the united states interned millions of japanese during ww2
complacent person's response: "yeah so what hitler holocausted a bunch of people"
well thats great so now we are satisfied as long as we aren't worse than hitler? do you see where i am coming from on this one? being better than other countries doesnt' justify not being the absolute best you can be.
that being said the united states has killed millions of people in the years after ww2, from sanctions in iraq that don't seem to be doing anything which have killed between one and 2 million people to the veitnam war in which the united states killed 4 million people because "if they are communist we can't make money off of them" the killing has to stop, if osama bin ladin had a death toll of millions of americans you people would be livid, but hey as long as it is uncle sam killing people that were stupid enough to be born outside the borders of the united states we are down with that.
solution get rid of the military it soul purpose is to kill damage and threaten
also globalization is a bunch of boolshit, i am down free trade with mexico if we are willing to open up the borders so that the people wanting to escape the economic and enviromental conditions that free trade has cause can leave. same with china. free trade is kind of like pcanywhere, only the corporate capitalist are the remote users and the workers of other countries are the computers. it is just a tool for corporate amerikkka to get its hands on workers in places that don't have strict labor laws.
solution, free trade for everyone, but that shoudl come along with free borders too.
i have more rants but i am tired
\'Thought is not what inhabits a certain conduct and gives it meaning; rather, it is what allows one to step back from this way of acting or reacting, to present it to oneself as an object of thought and question it as to its meaning, its conditions, and its goals. Thought is freedom in relation to what one does, the motion by which one detaches oneself from it, establishes it as an object, and reflects on it as a problem.\'
July 28th, 2002, 02:41 PM
Either I dont hate American All the thing you said Dr toker is truth, it's because other hate them coz for them America always interfer in their lives or in their country, Being ONE of the most Powerful country in terms of (Economics,Warfare,and other aspect) I can see that their helping other country as an example here in Philippines (commonly in mindanao)they help us to fight terrorism, but we can not say that all of them agreed but majority does agree on it they feel more protected if they can see some american solidiers patroling their street..... But we cannot stop those people from telling it coz it's their freedom to do that ............
July 30th, 2002, 02:52 PM
***note: this post is in response to an opinion that was expressed to me in a antipoint, it was something i felt needed to be addressed even though the person who sent it couldn't post there opinion in the forum... shows how much they believe in what they are saying...
ok... here is the thing... i don't hate america and i am not whining. i have no desire to live in afghanistan, but that does not mean i should not have an opinion that differs from that of our government. i think that the loss of innocent life is wrong. PERIOD. no questions asked. i don't care if it is american life, afghanistan life, or russian life. LIFE IS LIFE. this does not make me a hypocrite (*note to all the people who spelled it wrong, this is the correct spelling) i did not just jump on a band wagon. actually my opinion is apparently in the minority. but i stand by it becuase i believe it. killing innocent people is not the answer, it only makes things worse. murder in general doesn't even solve problems. murder is a crime no matter who commits it. i don't see how this makes me antiamerican, i do not understand how this makes me a hypocrite, and i do not see this as an abuse of my freedom of speech. maybe i was wrong about freedom of speech... maybe it means, freedom of speech ONLY to those who support murder and death. but i think i missed that definition.
Learn like you are going to live forever, live like you are going to die tomorrow.
July 31st, 2002, 04:52 AM
OK, before i say anything, you have to understand- Americans will stand up for their country.
If the US really fought for the '[freedom of] all people', how come the US got involved in World War II
only after it was attacked directly?
How come it didn't get involved in Africa, where hundreds upon thousands of people were being
slaughtered in tribal warfare?
How come it didn't get involved in Tibet, where the Chinese armies were crushing and destroying a
culture, driving people out of that region, and enslaving thousands?
How come it hasn't done a thing about the massive armies amassing on the borders of Pakistan and
I won't even touch on any recent events in Europe.
Get off your high horse. I can't believe that you would honestly sit there and say that you fight for
the freedoms of all people, when you are doing nothing about the Massacring going on in Palestine
and Israel. Both sides are creating victims, as Negative said. And the US is supporting one of those sides.
How is that in the best interests of the freedom of all people?
They JUST WILL. For that matter, i think everyone would stand up for their country, as we have seen
in this thread. Maybe i am biased. In fact, i'm sure that if i was living somewhere else i would see this
But IMHO, America is doing the best she can. We could not possibly support every single nation in
trouble. It seems to me that we help other nations an awful lot. You could probably go on all day about
how america didn't help these people, and how america didn't help those people. Why wasn't America
there to help after that city in Russia was bombed. Where was America in WW2. Like i said, if we tried
to help everyone, where would that put us then? It would probably be possible to help both Palestine
and Israel. And then what would we be critizied for. Killing more people then we help? I don't know.
But I honestly believe with all my heart that we are a GOOD nation. That we don't like to see people being
killed any more then anyone else does. And that we are doing all we can to help.
/rant rant. Hopefully i got it all out :-) This is ALL MY OPINION. Like i said, i'm sure i'm biased, but
this is the way i see it.
\"One wonders what would happen in a society in which there were no rules to break. Doubtless everyone would quickly die of boredom.\" -Susan Hawatch
July 31st, 2002, 06:04 AM
lord_darkside_x you are as American as the next, if not more so for exercising your freedom of speech in the manner it was intended. To discuss ideas so that we may decide our fate as free people. With that said, I’ll through in my 2 cents.
No Nation believes in war, but every nation has fought one. Idealism unfortunately is not reality. If we could stop the killing, that would be terrific. No one would be more pleased than I. Taking any life without good reason is wrong to me.
Unfortunately, the only way we could stop the OBL types from killing us and thereby us killing them, (unless you think we should do nothing when they kill us) is to totally stop all support of Israel, even to the point of not selling them arms. They would then, rush in and kill all the Jews. It’s well documented, they’ve said it on numerous occasions and proved it with actions. They will not stop until all the Jews have gone from ‘their’ land. Unless of course you want to go tell all the Jews we changed our minds and rescinded history, so now you gotta get out, we don’t care if you were born here or what happened in the past. Big Bin has tolled. I’m sure they would all just understand and find other places to live.
We would be responsible for the deaths of countless innocent lives on both sides, a literal slaughter. There is no easy answer here even though we wish there were one.
So how should we stop the killing?
Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”