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Thread: Anti-fraud bill is a smokescreen

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001

    Anti-fraud bill is a smokescreen

    Anti-fraud bill is a smokescreen to distract public
    from fact that corporate crooks aren't being prosecuted

    WASHINGTON, DC -- An anti-fraud bill passed by the Senate on Wednesday
    is an attempt to protect -- rather than punish -- the corporate
    criminals responsible for the recent rash of Wall Street scandals,
    Libertarians say.

    That;s because writing new laws will do nothing to punish the corporate
    crooks at Enron, WorldCom and other companies who have already
    defrauded their shareholders and employees.

    "It's time to call in the prosecutors, not the politicians," said
    Steve Dasbach, Libertarian Party executive director. "Crimes have been
    committed and lives have been ruined -- and current laws should be used
    to immediately prosecute these criminals and force them to return their
    ill-gotten gains."

    Spurred by a wave of company accounting scandals, the Senate voted 97-0
    on Wednesday to pass a bill that carries new penalties for corporate
    fraud, document shredding, and tightens oversight of the accounting
    industry. The Senate action followed a Wall Street speech that
    President Bush gave on Tuesday, in which he spelled out his own ideas
    for cracking down on corporate crime.

    But new legislation is just a smokescreen to cover up the fact that the
    current crop of criminals aren't being prosecuted, Libertarians say.

    For example, the Senate bill doubles the penalty for mail and wire
    fraud from five to 10 years, Dasbach said. "But why focus on
    sentencing a hypothetical, future criminal to 10 years when an actual
    Enron or WorldCom criminal can be sentenced to five years right now?
    Are politicians hoping that these white-collar criminals can be quietly
    sentenced to zero years when the furor dies down?"

    Equally important, enforcing stricter laws for tomorrow does nothing to
    help today's victims, Libertarians say.

    "It's an insult for Congress to tell the 17,000 workers at WorldCom
    who have lost their jobs, 'Don't worry, the next crooked accountant who
    tries this will be punished,' " Dasbach said. 'The government owes it
    to the workers who have lost their jobs and their savings due to fraud
    to prosecute the perpetrators as soon as possible, not after
    politicians preen over the latest bill they've written."

    Another solution that politicians are overlooking: Restitution.

    "Here are four words that should be on the lips of every 'concerned'
    politician: 'Give the money back,' " Dasbach said. "After these
    criminal executives are convicted, their victims should be encouraged
    to file civil suits to recover damages. Force the guilty to empty their
    bank accounts, sell their stock and put their mansions on the market in
    order to compensate their victims.

    "But writing another law won't return one dime to the hard-working
    employees and stockholders who lost their jobs and their life savings -
    and both Bush and Congress know that.

    "As long as politicians blather on about new laws instead of enforcing
    those already on the books, they should be considered accomplices
    after-the-fact in these corporate crimes."


    from a Libertarian party news letter
    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    All of this is so true and I'm not all that liberal. Thing is there are laws already to me it is a simple matter of Corp Racketering. Yeah were here about the Mafia, how they control so much yet they also have 3 piece suits. A con is a con and we see it now on a global scale that corps have made sure to give themself plenty of legal loop holes. Why do these corp cons plead the 5th the same reason anyone that breaks the law does only thing is these corp guys get to keep their money.
    I believe that one of the characteristics of the human race - possibly the one that is primarily responsible for its course of evolution - is that it has grown by creatively responding to failure.- Glen Seaborg

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Amen, Tedob.

    Does it bother anyone else that Gee Dub was cleared of insider trading while his dad was prez, then received massive electoral funding from Enron, while VP DC is being investigated for cooking the books at Halliburton?

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    If you ask for the reason why politicians are slying away from this read about where more then half of their campaign donations come from------these corporate scums are filtering millions of dollars into these politicains campaigns so why bite the hand that feeds you?

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    "All of this is so true and I'm not all that liberal"

    Its all very confusing these days i know, but libertarians arn't liberal, its basically conservative.

    i some times think my views are pretty much reactionary, compared to whats going on in washington today.

    moose69, that dosn't bother me as much as, G senior, now, is a vp in a company that speculates in military supplies and GW wages war, does
    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    this goes way WAY beyond party lines. These crooks that fleeced their employees and investors need to burn a slow death in hell. They destroyed peoples lives - I especially feel for the folks at Enron that had their whole savings invested in enron stock, that now have nothing. There is a great quote by Mark Twain I read this weekend that sums it up:

    "October. This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks in. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May, March, June, December, August, and February. --"
    freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitude

    freedom aint free

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    grygst76>> i gotta agree with the "why bite the hand that feeds ya" comment, it is definatly how the govt is dealing with the situation
    what is love but contempt for hate?

  8. #8
    Senior Member SodaMoca5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002

    Political ?

    Actually I think that trying to lay blame at politicians doors is the bigger smoke screen. Being a conservative (and a Libertarian) I find it counter productive that every time something happens when politicians should be, if anything, combining to condemn it they are instead too busy playing politics.

    Convict the people who have committed the crimes. After the conviction allow civil suits to reclaim their ill gotten gain. Now I am not sure about World Com yet, but Enron cooking the books and encouraging their employees to purchase stocks they knew were inflated and then top management selling off their shares while not allowing the workers to is criminal. There are no two sides to it. It is insider trading (bumping stock prices artificially) and a confidence scam all rolled into one. Lousy accounting practices are bad enough and World Com is certainly guilty of that but I haven't seen where they stooped as low as Enron.

    So where are the lawsuits, where are the indictments. Instead Congress passes another law to add teeth to the one not being used now. Then the politicians go bantering about and bringing up fault with each other.

    Before attacking Dubya or the VP be careful to look at all the Democrat scams that have been perpetrated in recent years. Or, better yet, don't look at it. Don't bring it up and argue us vs. them, but prosecute whoever (Republican or Democrat or Libertarian or Green Party or ...) breaks the law.

    This is precisely why I am a Libertarian. The power inherent in members of a large central, powerful, government are easily influenced to coruption by the very nature of the position. They makes laws but don't feel bound by them. They are to enforce justice but don't feel constrained by it. They judge everything by the yard stick of public opinion not public trust.

    Now it seems it may be happening in the same way in the corporate system as well. Why are these guys feeling protected? Why are they being protrected? And why are we bickering about secondary issues like the VP with a minor scandal (read about it, the accusation is specious) and the President, who was vindicated, (no mention of the abuses of Clinton? strange). Instead we should be reading headlines like "Head of Enron Receives Maximum Prison Sentence On All Counts: Faces 50 Years Maximum in Prison", and "Class Action Lawsuit Forces Top Enron Executives to File Bankruptcy From Jail Cells".

    There is no way that everyone who was hurt will get back their money. There is no way that everyone who lost their job due to corruption can be fairly compensated. But, I am certain that if the above headlines were in major newspapers and were followed by those for World COM it would certainly send a message that would help deter future abuses. Then maybe this new law would have some meaning.

    Sorry to rant so, hope it isn't too disjointed.


    Politics may not be the oldest profession, but the results are the same.
    \"We are pressing through the sphincter of assholiness\"

  9. #9
    Old Fart
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    I can't help but wonder if giving the SEC broader abilities concerning enforcement is a 'smoke screen' too, given the political influence that can be exercised whomever 'leads' the SEC during any given administration. Maybe the answer might be to make the SEC officials liable in cases like this also, which hopefully would result in stricter enforcement policies. It would make 'looking the other way' a lot less attractive if it bore a 5 or 10 year penalty in itself. I guess I'm ranting here too, but I am sick and tired of we, the general public, being treated like mushrooms by the government. Get me out of the dark and QUIT FEEDING ME B.S. !!!
    It isn't paranoia when you KNOW they're out to get you...

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    as far as anything is concerned dealing with such a scandal it always goes deeper then what is shown to the public; I am not bashing the politicians in any way- just watching them throw up a smoke screen. In this country small petty car stereo thiefs get close to 3 years in jail while these corps steal peoples life savings and get 6 months + 100,000 fine that doesn't even come close to how much they stole I say they should not go to jail; rather EVERY bit of assetts they have should be seized and given back to the people they stole it from. Also they need to be watched as well because they always have "hidden" stashes and government loop holes to keep thousands of dollars in their pocket after being wiped; but again let me ask you this? You are a person running for an important position whether it be at your school or work; and you really don't have much money, Here I come-I am a multimillion dollar vp of a successful company and just offer you the money you need. Yes you are going to take that money because in your eyes I'a great guy, I have no problems (yet) and my company LOOKS profitable. You win your election largely by help from me and my funnelling of thousands of dollars-GREAT! NOW I have been stealing millions of dollars while laying off thousands of employees and the people are now looking at you to do something about it, what would you do? I have given you your seat in where ever you were running, I have been a true friend by supplying you with money. Could you go forward and prosecute me knowing if you did you stand to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations? NO you wouldn't and the reason being is not by your single choice but the other house reps I have also been feeding all along will not allow you to, they will put up roadblock after roadblock. Remember a couple years ago they wanted to end the money donating from clintons regime? What ever happened to that? They squashed it because they knew you do not bite the hand that feeds you. How would I know this? My uncle is a senate man and fills me in on the B.S..

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