August 10th, 2002, 11:52 PM
The Whole France must be destroyed
I have read in the newspaper "Le Monde" that in the usa the france was not well considered at the moment. I had not thought it was serious on the moment, but I have read another article yesterday with this quotation: "The whole France must be destroyed", and some little explications about this usa feeling.
So I'd want to know what is the point of view of americans who have probably a more acurate vision of this evolution of the "global american reaction" towards the france.
The original text is here
An automatic translation is here
Thank you to have read this thread. I think some phrases must be strange.
Life is boring. Play NetHack... --more--
August 11th, 2002, 12:16 AM
I may not speak for all Americans, but I do know what I think.....I think that the French are people just like us and that its ok if we have different views. I don't know what started all the hostility, but I know that when my grandparents went over to France, they had French people treating them with absolute, horrid manners...My grandparents, one of whom was in D-Day were on a canal cruise and the locals were crapping off the bridges onto their boat. They hold no hard feelings and i don't either....However, i do know. that we americans are seen as pompous and arrogant....I understand that...some of us are, but not all. Just because a few French ruined a vacation, doesn't mean that all French are bad...I say let bygones be bygones and start over.
M$ support is like shooting yourself in the left foot and then putting a band-aid on the right one.
August 11th, 2002, 12:38 AM
The Frence are the only people in the world that think Jerry Lewis is funny.
[shadow]A kind word and a gun will get you more than a kind word alone[/shadow]
August 11th, 2002, 12:44 AM
I like Jerry Lewis, and I am not French.
The Frence are the only people in the world that think Jerry Lewis is funny.
As for the story, why in the world are we stirring up stuff with the French? I mean, I thought we were allies with them. I don't understand. It seems to me we as Americans are getting a little too big for our britches and one day we are going to have more enemies than friends if we keep operating the way we do. I mean, we exploit third world countries, call others "evil" and make everybody conform to our standards. I love America, but I am worried that one day somebody is going to get pissed off and blow us off the map.
August 11th, 2002, 01:14 AM
I've never been able to understand the anti-americanism that exists in France, and would love for someone in France to explain it for me. Sorry to bring up the past, but if not for Great Britian and the U.S., they would be speaking German, and eating lots of Kraut in Paris today, not enjoying the freedoms that they have.
It isn't paranoia when you KNOW they're out to get you...
August 11th, 2002, 02:10 AM
Your news paper is making something out of Koch that isn't there. While it's true most Americans, on visiting france, have been offended by the French attitude, a hatred of the french hasn't developed. Most think its kind of unfortunate, and really don't give a ****.
Ed Koch is running his own vendeta and dosn't represent the American people
Emily Eakin: In the U.S. Nowadays, Little Love for France
posted by Andrew on 7/6/2002 at 4:43 AM under: Columns (source: NY Times)
Since the beginning of the year, Edward I. Koch, former mayor of New York City, has signed off most of his weekly radio broadcasts with a declaration of war loosely inspired by Julius Caesar: "Omni Gaul delenda est!" ("All Gaul must be destroyed!") Mr. Koch says he doesn't mean the phrase literally, of course. But it's become a way for him to express his antipathy toward France. In harboring such feelings, he is apparently not alone. While formal polls routinely show widespread American indifference to France, some experts say anti-French sentiment in the news media is on the rise. A few have even begun to talk of an outbreak of francophobia, marked by the revival of age-old stereotypes about the dirty, arrogant, anti-Semitic French. Francophobia is to America what anti-Americanism is to France, said Justin Vaisse, a professor at the Institute of Political Science in Paris who was in Manhattan last week presenting a paper on the topic to members of the French-American Foundation
by Ed Koch (December 28, 2001)
All supporters of Israel should boycott French wine, cheese, perfume and clothing, as well as refuse to visit France as tourists, until the French government recalls its ambassador to Britain, and either cashiers or demotes him.
Last week, the recently appointed French ambassador to Britain, Daniel Bernard, attended a reception at the home of Conrad Black and his wife, Barbara Amiel. Black is the publisher of newspapers in Canada, the United States, Britain and Israel. Amiel, a reporter in her own right, said that at the party Bernard called Israel a "shitty little country," adding, "Why should the world be in danger of World War III because of those people?"
Bernard does not deny he made the statements, and his spokesman stated that Bernard was "absolutely shocked" by suggestions he was anti-Semitic. Really? He must be thin-skinned indeed to be so easily shocked. That little country and the Jewish nation, never more than one-third of one percent of the world's population that he so vulgarly described, gave birth to Moses, King David, King Solomon, Jesus, Freud and Einstein, as well as approximately 20 percent of the world's Nobel Prize winners.
The response by Benjamin Disraeli, prime minister of Britain during the reign of Queen Victoria, to an anti-Semite seems particularly appropriate, "Yes, I am a Jew, and when the ancestors of the right honorable gentleman were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon."
Bernard used to serve as France's delegate to the United Nations. One can safely assume he supported with pleasure the prejudiced resolutions against Israel offered time after time by the Arab countries, effectively supporting Palestinian terrorism against the civilian population of Israel, while denouncing Israel because it exercised its right of self defense.
That support shouldn't shock us. After all, wasn't it in Vichy France during World War II that French cops rounded up and delivered 61,000 Jews at Drancy to the Nazis without a request by the Nazis that they do so? Those Jews were then shipped to Nazi death camps where they were gassed.
We now know, notwithstanding herculean efforts to cover up the history of the Nazi occupation, that large numbers of French collaborated with the Nazis, and only a small number - mostly Communists responding to the orders of Stalin - continued to fight underground.
It was the French government of 20 years ago that financed and built the Iraqi nuclear bomb plant that - fortunately for the allies in the Gulf War of 1991 - no longer existed because Israel bombed and destroyed it in 1981.
It was France that made a bargain with the PLO in the 1970s that it would not arrest Arab terrorists using France as their base planning attacks on Israel and Jews so long as they did not engage in terrorism on French soil. And it is France at the United Nations that now opposes requests by the United States and Britain for additional sanctions against Iraq for its refusal to admit UN inspectors required by UN resolution.
French anti-Semitism is well known. I have no doubt that had Bernard been alive during the infamous Dreyfus trials, he might well have defended the French government with something like, "Why is that shitty little Jew protesting his innocence when the French government and the French army says he is guilty of treason?" - as did so many others.
If a French ambassador had assailed Saudi Arabia in the same way - a country that exports not only oil, but terrorists - the French government would have fired him on the spot. Incidentally, 15 of the 19 who blew up the World Trade Center and hit the Pentagon were Saudis.
Where are the supporters of Israel willing to stand up and actively lead boycotts and picket lines against France until it fires Bernard?
Let me add that if a quarrel arose between France and Germany, I would hope we in the United States would remember how, when Ronald Reagan was president, the French government refused to allow our military planes to fly over France on their way to bomb Libya, and that we would support the Germans.
Boycott, boycott, boycott France.
Do you get the feeling Koch is Jewish?
Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”
August 11th, 2002, 02:40 AM
I have nothing against France or its people. We are all humans. I read the article that you posted and it seemed to me that the writer really did not like the U.S. If you are a reporter you are "supposed" to write the truth, at least that is what I think should happen. The writer should also be neutral and not try and persuade the readers with their own opinions, the truth should speak for itself. Of course, there are reporters all of the world that do this. If you talk about a country and start off by stereotyping or calling its people names, that in my opinion is not the right way to report. Maybe he took something someone said and made it bigger than it seemed. Everyone is mad about something and they all have to tell the world about it. As far as I am concerned and my friend and relatives, I would never want or anything remotely close to happen to france as your title stated.
p.s. not to try to gloat or in any way am I trying to make fun of or belittle France or its peoplem but maybe he is just mad that the U.S. did better in the World Cup or that Lance won the Tour de France again. I don't know just a theory. =)
August 11th, 2002, 02:59 AM
August 11th, 2002, 03:42 AM
Humm first thing to understand Americans is that our goverment in most cases like your own has an agenda of it's own for what ever reason. The problem with this is that any goverment must then sell it's view to the people that elect them. This may work for a bit but long term they are still learning (goverments that is). Me I harbor no ill feeling toward the French people nor any people for that matter. I am a target though (I move fast) when I travel abroad as is my family. Not fun nor easy to move around with armed body guards just to visit family but I do. Hey your food and wine are great as are the people all of you, if there is an agenda against you then don't ask me I'm across the pond and check out the sources of whom wrote the piece cause maybe they have an agenda of their own. Question everything accept what you research as right, then duck and cover cause the big guys will screw it up This help? And Jerry Lewis is what he is and also provides a very valid social means to children therefore he can never suck, at least he gives back to a community of people Nebuluswonder what have you done in this area?
I believe that one of the characteristics of the human race - possibly the one that is primarily responsible for its course of evolution - is that it has grown by creatively responding to failure.- Glen Seaborg
August 11th, 2002, 03:45 AM
Well, my wife and I plan on visiting Provence. We both love French food and the language.
Most Americans that I know are very interested in France and the rest of Europe, as well. A very large number of Americans have relatives who live in France, Germany, Belgium, the UK, etc. They like to visit their family and friends there.
My wife has been to Paris and other parts of France several times. I have asked her about the "French attitude." She claims that everyone she has met has been considerate and well-mannered. Also, she is a journalist and prides herself on avoiding tourist areas. Tourists - including me - (regardless where they come from) can get on one's nerves. I also avoided tourist areas when I lived in Europe. I was stationed in Germany as part of NATO. I had a GREAT time with the German people! I learned the language - at least enough to have fun. These folks always met me halfway. I mean I spoke German to them and they answered in English. My landlord and lady had relatives in the States so they wanted to practice English on me (My apologies to the readers in the UK for calling it English, but what what else to call it?).
My wife had to practically drag me back to the States cause I liked Europe so well! We travelled to the UK and had a great time there.
I'm sorry about former mayor Koch for taking J. Caesar's words out of context. Kisscool - Please don't let that stuff worry you. France has many more friends in the US than detractors.
BTW, I'm a retired US Army officer and I have met some of my French counterparts and they are real pros and gentlemen!
Maybe we should ask foriegn visitors to New York how they have been treated? (BTW, I LOVE NY!) Some of this depends on where you go and who you encounter.