August 21st, 2002, 07:25 PM
"The battle cry for reparations has far more to do with the color green than with the colors black and white," said Steve Dasbach, executive director of the Libertarian Party. "Forcing people who had nothing to do with slavery to pay others who were never enslaved is the height of injustice and will only exacerbate racial tension in America."
"Millions of white Americans who have no reason to dislike blacks may find one the moment they're forced to pay a race tax," Dasbach said. "The only people who will benefit will be the pandering politicians who get to dole out the money - as race relations get worse.
"Besides, decades of other race-conscious government programs, such as minority set-asides and hiring quotas, have actually expanded the racial divide. Instead of learning from those failures, politicians seem determined to create more of them."
Justice also demands that the only individuals who are punished are those personally responsible for violating the rights of others, he said.
"No one alive today had anything to do with the morally repugnant policy of slavery," he said. "So confiscating their money for reparations amounts to punishing people for crimes committed by someone else - more than 100 years ago.
"And what of Asian-Americans, Latino Americans, and other immigrants whose ancestors never even owned slaves?" asked Dasbach. "What sense does it make to force them to pay reparations?"
Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”
August 21st, 2002, 09:35 PM
You know, I'm not a racist person by any means, but this just makes me mad. It seems more that people like Al Sharpton and others are the most racist people of all. I didn't do anything to enslave anyone.
We give them affirmative action and other things to help balance things out, but everytime we try and do something all they do is complain and say they want more. It really sickens me.
A friend of mine in college lost her scholarship because she got under a 3.0 one semester, at the same time she overheard a black female that got a 2.3 GPA and got to keep that same scholarship. If thats not racist against white people, I don't know what is.
I agree that the enslavement was a horrible time in our history, although that was almost 100 years ago. They now have all the same rights as other races, and then some with the affirmative action. I just wonder if their demands are ever going to end.
August 21st, 2002, 09:50 PM
And what about the Pizza Hut and Domino's owners down in Florida who are refusing to send their delivery drivers into certain neighborhoods at night because they are repeatedly beaten and robbed? These guys are being called racist just for trying to protect their businesses and employees! I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned the caucasian 'race' has paid it's dues for past atrocities and the 'race card' is over-played and over-rated. It's time to stop looking at one's color and start judging by character, which is the only thing that counts in the measure of a man (or woman).
It isn't paranoia when you KNOW they're out to get you...
August 21st, 2002, 10:17 PM
one thing that i would like to point out:
black africans rounded up slaves. black africans put those same "brothers" on the boat in shackles and treated them like animals. black africans sold those same "brothers" to white men when they arrived in MANY places. america was not the only place that had slaves. and not all slaves were black. this whole thing has been blown way out of propoertion by people who would rather feel oppressed and leech off of society. those same people have the same job opportunities that i do, same opportunity for education. all they have to do is play the game.
just like water off a duck\'s back... I AM HERE.
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August 21st, 2002, 10:29 PM
In all honesty, the biggest reason that this is still an ongoing issue is the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons out there who are making a small fortune by "Throwing wood on the fire". I am honestly sick to death of all of it. If the government wants to pay reparations, then they can do it w/ someone else's money....I'm moving to Canada!
August 21st, 2002, 11:03 PM
This issue has come up time and time again for quite a few years and while I realize it was a terrible time in history, how would they ever create a fair payment plan? By fair I'm saying, realize that America is a giant melting pot and my family for instance came here early in WW II from Holland. We weren't even around to be held responsible to today's generation of Black Americans wanting reparations. Do they plan on a division of payments based on what percentage of your family (through marriage etc) was on American soil during that time in history or will it just be an across the board tax?
I'm just so tired of the victim stance. I could be screaming about what my family lost during the war, the members that perished in the camps, am I? No, it was history. We learned from it and have moved on. I look at a small diamond ring on my right hand that was recently passed down to me by my mother, having known since I was a little girl that it would someday be mine and I know that it was one of the few pieces my great grandma managed to escape from Holland with. When I look at it I feel some sadness, wondering what she went through but at the same time I feel her strength. I don't stop to wonder what could have been but I move on to make what is, better.
I've even heard one argument, wish I could find the source but I can't remember where I read it (Print, some magazine) awhile back but the generalities of it stuck in my head. A Black American, interviewed for this article on reparations said that while yes, a lot of slaves, upon being freed may not have gotten their 40 acres and a mule are in a much better situation generations down the road than they would have been if they had not been kidnapped and sold into slavery. Kind of makes you ponder fate a bit doesn't it?
It boils down to, in my mind at least, that life is what we make of it. This is not a wrong by one person but many and it was a time in our history that we should be and are ashamed of but, once more if you know your history, slavery has been around since the dawn of time and just about every race has spent some time in shackles.
I'll hop off my soap box now...just couldn't not post on this thread...
August 21st, 2002, 11:08 PM
Hold On Tex
I agree fully with the sentiment expressed here about reparations. I do not agree with them, I do not feel that we should be paying for sins and crimes committed over 130 years ago. My ancestry, as far as I have researched, did not own slaves but were poor white trash in themselves.
However one big caution is the generalizations in some of these posts. Rev. Sharpton and the Rev. Jesse Jackson do not speak for African Americans. They represent a small percentage of them. Just as Louis Farrakhan does. They have an agenda which often seems far more political than helpful for African Americans. But we need to be careful about lumping all African Americans into this group whining for more.
I agree that this sort of thing breads racism and does not bring justice. I do not believe America is fair and that racism is a thing of the past. I do believe that many African Americans (and other immigrants) have it harder. I also believe it is better than it ever has. I believe that some races have shown how to overcome the prejudice that remains. Rather than looking at the African Americans who cannot seem to make it, look at those who do or even those who are successful in their own way. They may not be rich but they are hard working, raise their family and provide for them, and are contributing members to society. Able to hold their heads high in anyone's presence. Also look at those immigrants who have swiftly overcome hardship and succeeded. No one talks about the plight of the Asians. Why not? They were one of the most oppressed immigrant populations ever to come to America. Now they are one of the most prosperous, best educated, and most dynamic. When schools talk about standardizing tests they often complain far more about Asian Americans blowing the curve than White Americans.
I believe African Americans should look to those examples. I believe White Americans should too. Hard work, Education, Sacrificing now for a better tomorrow. Working for your family, your kids, your grandchildren. These are the actions which rise people above their current circumstances.
One last thing. I am a lucky man. Very lucky. Buy my grandparents were not. My Grandfather on my father's side had to leave school in Junior High to help support the family. My grandmother never finished high school. But they believed in education. They raised three children by making shoes in a factory, were self taught (never do a crossword puzzle with my Grandmother, she will embarass you), and were very hard workers. I was blessed to know them both before they passed on. Their children? My Uncle has a Masters Degree in Business, my Aunt has a PhD in Mathematics and teaches continuing education to adults, my father has a PhD in Mechanical Engineering and taught for over 35 years until he retired. I have a bachelor's degee in Mechanical Engineering and now work as a NSO for a bank. But most of my success is not my own, I owe it to my Grandparents and my parents. They set the stage that allowed me to pursue my dreams. They had to work harder for less to leave me with more. It may not fulfill the me me me attitude we have today but it is the method whereby people can better themselves and better the lives of their children and grandchildren.
Sorry if I got on too much of a soap box.
P.S. Sometime I will tell you about my Grandparents on my Mom's side They were wonderful and inspirational too. I thank God for them every day even though they have gone to be with Him years ago.
\"We are pressing through the sphincter of assholiness\"
August 21st, 2002, 11:58 PM
This isn't even worth debating over. I never enslaved them, no one alive did. How do they know their ancestors were even slaves, they could have moved here in 1870. All it comes down to is, We need to get paid for what our great great grandparents did, even though we never had to go through it, we want paid. That is what they are saying.
August 22nd, 2002, 02:24 AM
As a descendant of slaves I guess I'll try and shed some light on this subject as I see it...
It's not just the American government that is responsible for slavery great Britain, France, Holland, etc but let me chime in on the U.S. my ancestors were not invited here they did not come to the shores of America to make a better life for themselves, they where bought here to work for the whites... I hear alot of people say I wasn't even born then what do I have to do with slavery, well look at it this way. alot of companies(Aetna, csx fleet financia,etcl) where around then and benefited from the blood sweat and tears of my ancestors these companies you do business with today you work for them, you invest in them and collect a pension from them when you buy insurance from them you get a better rate then I do! America should pay her debts... I pay my taxes to a government that enslaved my ancestors. Your founding fathers are Hippocrates, if they really believed in their ideology of a free society then why did slavery ever exist here in America? I'm not just speaking for African Americans, but alot of people who came over from china and help build the railroads where ****ed by the usa along with native Americans, what about my grandfather who risked his life fighting in the pacific and Korea to come home to north Carolina and not be served in a restaurant or access to the law equally? my step dad and uncle where both in Vietnam fighting to help other people on behalf of America and the constitution that supported slavery hmmmmm but you have nothing to do with it? Look deep and hard at what's going on around you. You’re guilty by association and taxes. You say hard work and an education is all one needs to make it in this society, my ancestors worked hard in the cotton and sugarcane fields, denied and education denied to speak their native language and practice their culture, so the whites could sit on their asses sipping mint julep. America has billions to fight iraq but, when is she going to give me my forty acres and a mule?
August 22nd, 2002, 02:41 AM
If that's really true then if my neighbors rob a bank and I have dinner with them tonight, do I stand trial becouse I associate with them?
You’re guilty by association and taxes.
Do I hire a lawyer and take a trip to Germany and demand payment due to what could have been if only my family hadn't been thrown in concentration camps and their homes levelled by bombs, their jobs lost and in the case of a few, their lives? All based on what could have been? Would my great grandparents not have fled Holland if their lives were not in danger, probably not. Do I sit here and pull my hair out wondering what my life would have been like if their fortunes had not been lost?
Do I agree that racist attitudes and ignorance is a way of life?
I have this attitude that nothing is owed me. I take each day at a time and I move forward with what I have and make the best of it. I truly hope my assumption is wrong Nth Man but you sound very bitter and your bitterness is based on what has happened in the past and not on what has changed for the better.
I am not guilty by association and I refuse to accept that blame nor apologize for what happened over one hundred years ago. I will on the other hand, teach my children to know their history and to know that without knowing their history, it will be repeated and it is up to each and every one of us to not allow that to happen.
Just had another thought.
Should I start screaming for a recount on presidential elections that occured prior to my gender being allowed to vote? Who knows what this country would be like today if generations of women had been allowed to have their say politically, or hold jobs deemed fit only for a man? I want a complete replay of history!!!!
You see where this is going Nth Man? The winners here are the ones that pull themselves up and move on, succeeding despite perceived and actual road blocks. I take pride in knowing where we've come from and fighting hard to guarantee that it will never happen again.