Slavery reparations

[Quad]

Originally posted here by g0t r00t
It's one thing to have to work harder because you're not as rich as someone, but it's a totally different thing to have to work harder because of the color of your skin, gender or sexual orientation. You're right that life isn't fair but that can't be an excuse for discrimination.

Oh yeah, one more thing. Before people start thinking that I hate all white people....I really believe that the majority of society is sickened by discrimination. I think that the KKK and other small minded people misrepresent the majority of people in the US.

work harder cause of the color of your skin? WTF....where the **** are you living. I am a white man and goddamn proud of. What I want to know is where the **** my American Honkey College fund is? Can you answer that, or are you to held down by "the man."

How about racial quota's? Why is it that a black man gets hired over a white man thats better educated and more experianced, just to fill a ****ed up RACIST quota.

Why is it every time I hear a rap song, all I hear is "kill whitey" and to quote 2 Pac: "there's a ghetto up in heaven and it's ours BLACK POWER", and that god damn mother ****ing Louis Farikhan.....Yet if I were to even mutter the words "White Pride" or "white Power" or even fly the confederate flag (which I wouldnt cause that ignorant and redneck and I am not a racist) I would be labled a racist.

Seems to me that the only racists today are the ones who are not being oppressed, but rather coddled for **** that took place over 100 years ago.....SO A NICE BIG **** YOU to you *******!

P.S. I am half native american Indian.....Do I get to ****ing bitch about columbus and his "Band of white opressors" and how they STOLE my ancestors land, beat and raped there women, even after the indians showed them how to ****ing survive. UGH Your a pathetic gimp, and people like you just perpetuate the problem.

[Nth Man]

40 acres is a metaphor for whats owed. quad, alot of african americans have native american ancestors, where do you think runaway slave went? they live among the Indains because it was a safe refuge. they all didn't run up north, southern florida was a very hostile environment (swamps, aligators, deseases, insects)where most white men would not go. if your are really half native then you can go to school. one big misconception of affirmative action is it allows people of color with less skills a priority over someone more qualified. thats was not the intended purpose of AA. equality skilled people of color where being discriminated against AA action is supposed to allow someone of the same qualification the same chance as the majority i.e(for every skilled white, one equally skilled black will be hired).not the other way around. I worked for a circuit board company, I applied for a position in the IT dept, as a PE Tech when I submitted my resume' the man who head up the department came downstairs to the shop floor interduced himself shoke my hand and went back upstairs, that was my interview. He hired someone who didn't have a natural tan, and less qualified... what made me mad was the fact that he didn't care to take the time and see if I was qualified for the position or not. he saw my skin color first.
African Americans deal with this everyday.

[TechieChick]

Nth Man..take this with how it was intended and not as a snarky reply.

But..if you filled out your application as you respond to threads here, a lot of grammar and spelling errors, I wouldn't have even met you. Your resume would have been discarded and believe me, that has nothing to do with discrimination. It's all about perception of intelligence and ability to do the job.

[Wickdgin]

Originally posted here by Nth Man
[B] one big misconception of affirmative action is it allows people of color with less skills a priority over someone more qualified. thats was not the intended purpose of AA. equality skilled people of color where being discriminated against AA action is supposed to allow someone of the same qualification the same chance as the majority i.e(for every skilled white, one equally skilled black will black will be hired).

One white to one equally skilled black does not seem to reflect the ratio of whites to blacks in this countries population. Also white vrs black excludes other minority groups.

Forget all that though, why should it be a question of race. That is my biggest problem with AA, and even this. We strive to be equal, to have a color blind society, but yet every where you turn it becomes a racial issue. Why should a college or an employer have to base a decision on race at all?

[Rev Jazzman]

Forget all that though, why should it be a question of race. That is my biggest problem with AA, and even this. We strive to be equal, to have a color blind society, but yet every where you turn it becomes a racial issue. Why should a college or an employer have to base a decision on race at all?

I have to agree... We pay taxes to a government that says "No discrimination of sex, race, creed, religion, etc..." The problem is how MUCH they are "not" discriminating in those regards. Anyone watch CSPAN much? There's a lot of African-American programs along with other minority programs being aired, but ever since CSPAN'S inception I have yet to see any white male programs. What's up with that? We have a black history month, but I have been threatened with a school suspention for even suggesting a white history month. Go Figure!

.gov should do away with ALL the programs and simply be colorblind. That way, they can hold true to their claim of NOT discriminating. If someone is even LOOKING at skin color, there's GOING to be discrimination. It seems to me that .gov is fanning the coals to a fire that should have died out a LONG time ago... But hey... As it was hinted around at earlier... The propeganda makes for votes (after all, it WAS the propeganda that won the Civil War for the North if we care to put the A-Beka, wannabe "history" books down and pick up something intelligent to read).

Don't get me wrong... I'm not for slavery by any means. That last comment was made mostly because I believe that Abraham Lincoln was probably the worse president this country has had because of the imbalance he created between Federal and State. IMHO, he deserved what he got.

Cheers to all (regardles of your skin color, unless it's green.... I really don't like green)!

Rev

[antihaxor]

Originally posted here by Nth Man

I think alot of African American are more upset with the fact like Got Root said we were never given a formal apology. we were not asked weather or not we wanted to become a citizen but made second class citizen by the emacipation proclomation under a constitution that was supposed to protect its citizens from injustices. I not angry and I'll try and look at this debate from both sides... that is all I ask of anyone reading this thread.

A formal apology? From who? I am a decendent of American Indians. Why should I aplogise to ANYONE!!!! You need to check yourself. You're very statement is predudical IMHO. .

Your poeple decided to submit to slavery..mine did not. Oh they TRIED to make Indians slaves but we would rather DIE than submit to it. THe only reward WE recieved was RACIAL GENOCIDE!..You say you're not angry? Well you should be. The anger should be channeled in a constructive manner however. Excel and work hard use the anger as an energy source.

I love black poeple. I respect thier accomplishments. I will NOT however under any cicumstances aplogise for slavery. The very fact that you're in AMERICA now and not starving in Africa should be enough of a "reparation" I could take an absurd position also and justify it with more logic than you did. After all ..this country's land was at one time was all "owned" (yes even your grandfather's land) by Indians. We were slaughtered and murdered and the land was taking from us. We were lied too and lead away to starve on some useless "reservation". If there was ENOUGH of us left couldn't we rise up and say"WE want reparations"? You say "All I ask is anyone reading this to look at both sides " . Your perspective seems a bit one sided to me. I will say again what I said in my antipoints message"QUIT WHINING" No one here owes you a damn thing or me either for that matter. I however am not asking for a "formal apology"

N my words may seem harsh but thats how I see it.

[g0t r00t]

This is my last post to this discussion. It's obvious to me that some, just some, people in this discussion are demonstrating the racial problems I was describing. Since I posted here, I've been called an '*******' and told to "get a *****ing job". So, because I believe that I'm at a disadvantage as an African American, I must not have a job? Give me a break. This is exactly what Nth Man and I were talking about. And some of you all need to do a better job of reading an entire post instead of selective parts. I never said every white person in America should apologize to African-Americans. I said that the US government as a whole should apologive. As far as AA is concerned, I don't believe in it. It was a good idea, but it doesn't work. There are 2 ways that AA hurts African-Americans. The first is that, like Nth Man said, some employeers don't even look at an applicants qualifications. So not only are qualified white men and women being overlooked but so are qualified African-Americans. The second way it hurts is when an African American gets a job at a company that uses AA, the majority of the time it is assumed that they got the job because of AA and not on their own merits. This futher fuels the claim that African-Americans are lazy.

That's it...no more from me on this topic. If you want to neg me for expressing my views, then fine.

[Brad]

Only in America ladies and gentleman, only in America..............

[proactive]

I normally don't partake in these debates as I'm not American, but this time only...

Originally posted here by JP
[B]
But, despite all, I pay my taxes and I'm proud to do it. Maybe you should take some pride in your country too?[B]

IMO your country has got a huge problem when certain parts of the population don't take any pride in they're own country. Maybe they don't even feel like they're a part of the American society? I saw a program once where a reporter was interviewing people in the poor black parts of New York (just after september 11th btw). Many of these said things like, "what has America done for me except raping my grandmother & put me in this crummy apartment. I owe America nothing".

When a society has become one that it's members don't feel like they're a part of, ugly things will happen sooner or later. How about the riots in L.A. some years ago?

And I don't think there's no use saying "take pride in your country", that's not gonna work. When your father & grandfather worked in a burger-joint and lived in the crummy neighbourhoods, there's no chance you're gonna go to Harvard. That's like one in a million. The rests gonna be stuck right where they're father & grandfather were. And the numbers of people who don't fit into society is growing and growing.

My point is that the American goverment has to actively do something about this problem, not just sit back and wait for better times because they're not coming. Building more jails is not gonna help either. Somehow these people has to be pulled back into society, and that's gonna cost you your tax money. And perhaps a few of your principles about free enterprise. What I'm suggesting is things like recognizing slavery as a crime done to the black americans by the Goverment. Paying for work-training, free kindergarten for people that can't afford it, creating jobs for everyone & see to it that they pay off. Nobody's gonna work for nothing. Stuff like that.

So while you are hunting Al-Quiada in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's really boiling in you're own back-yard. I give you 10-15 years, if nothing has changed it's you're own people flying planes into buildings. I actually believe that. Well, you're not the only country having these problems. I been to England and I've seen the same thing. In my own country these problems are developing, but because of Norways small size it's easier to control.

So, whats this post doing in this thread anyway? What I see in this thread is that so many people don't want to recognize that stuff our forfathers did is actually OUR problem, and we're gonna have to deal with it. And problems don't dissappear just because we want them to. They have to be dealt with.

Sorry about this, I promise I won't post in cosmos for while.

[TIMBSNTRUKS]

Originally posted here by JP


You really should get over this "I'm a victim" thing, it's not very becoming. With your attitude, I'm not surprised that you've been treated your entire life with "contempt and tolerance". However, just because you've been treated that way, doesn't mean that America as a whole treats all people of your race similarly. Perhaps you'd find that if you adjusted your attitude, those around you might gain a bit more respect for you.

LETS NOT GET IT TWISTED. I HAVE NEVER NOR WILL I EVER BE A "VICTIM" OR BLAME ANYONE FOR MY ILLS. I AM THE SOLE CONTROLLER OF MY DESTINY AND IF I DONT HAVE "IT" IT'S BECAUSE I DIDNT GET "IT". ITS SO EASY FOR PEOPLE TO TRY AND SWEEP WHAT IT WAS UNDER THE RUG WITH A "OOPS MY BAD" AND THINK IT WILL GO AWAY. THE EFFECTS OF 400 YEARS OF SLAVERY ARE STILL FELT TODAY. I AGREE WITH ANTIHAXOR THAT WHAT WAS DONE TO THE NATIVE AMERICANS WAS JUST AS BAD, AND AMERICA TRIED TO AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGE IT AND MAKE IT RIGHT (EVEN IF JUST SYMBOLICALLY). AFRICAN AMERICANS STILL CANT EVEN GET A FORMAL APOLOGY FROM AMERICA. 40 ACRES AND A MULE WASNT SOMETHING WE JUST DREAMED UP. IT WAS A COMMITTMENT ON BEHALF OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT TO TRY AND RIGHT A WRONG AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, BUT THEY WENT BACK ON THEIR WORD.

MY ATTITUDE IS JUST FINE BECAUSE I KNOW THE HISTORY AND I SEE THE FRUITS OF THAT LABOR, AND I WILL NEVER FORGET. EVERYBODY IS QUICK TO SAY SLAVERY WAS 100 YEARS AGO WHEN 40 YEARS AGO AFRICAN AMERICANS WERE STILL FIGHTING TO VOTE, OR SIT ANYWHERE ON A BUS, TO GET ADEQUATE HOUSING. ANYTIME PEOPLE HEAR AFRICAN AMERICANS SPEAKING UP ON IT THEY WANT US TO "GET OVER" IT. ITS EASY TO SAY WHEN YOU STILL BENEFIT FROM THE "SYSTEM", AND A "SYSTEM" DOES EXIST, WHETHER YOU CHOOSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT OR NOT. IF IT DOES NOT OPPRESS YOU OR LIMIT YOU OR MAKE THINGS THAT MUCH HARDER FOR YOU, YOU THINK A PERSON WANTS PITY. I WOULD ASK YOU...DO YOU THINK THAT THE SAME MINDS THAT DREAMT UP "JIM CROW LAWS" PASSED ANY OF THOSE THOUGHTS AND TEACHINGS TO THEIR CHILDREN? SURELY THEIR IDEAS/IDEALS HAVE SOME BEARING ON HOME THE GAY COMMUNITY IS VIEWED AND TREATED AS WELL.

THE WHOLE ISSUE ISN'T SO MUCH THE MONEY, PER SE, BUT MORE SO THE MESSAGE THAT THE GOVERNMENT SENDS BY NOT DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT WHEN IT CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE.