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Thread: Cooling and noise basics

  1. #11
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    Thanks Vic
    Now if i can just find someplace in South Africa where i can buy some of those fans
    i will be very happy
    Regards
    Mike
    Never miss a good opportunity to shut up.....

  2. #12
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    addition

    Titanmike, you can alwyas order those things from the net, there are a lot webshops.

    addition

    Noise and cooling:
    "Always on low spec boxes" and some little mod's

    CPU's
    Like said in my tutorial, passive cooling is a good idea to reduce noise levels. For instance if you plan to built a ethernet gateway (for instance for sharing a broadband connection) you can try to cool your cpu passive. Up to 80486/DX2 this can easily be done with a regular heatsink since workload isn't very high. If you plan to use that box in a big network, workload will be higher and you will need a faster cpu. You might be able to cool a Pentium 1 box with a good heatsink without fan (for instance one from Zalman) depending on location. Another tip: Downclocking a (old) cpu can decrease heat a lot and increase stability.

    PSU's
    Another tip to reduce noise on "always on" boxes is replacing the powersupply with a silent one or replace the power supply fan with a silent one. Very silent fans with high reliability and very good performance are PAPST fans. They are not cheap, but you get a system you don't even hear (something like 26 dB). Replacing the fan inside the PSU can be easy or tricky. Always watch what you are doing when opening a power supply. There are parts that can discharge when touched -> no good idea if you care about your health. So if you open it, be sure you know what you are doing. You need some basic electricity and computerhardware knowlegde otherwise it's better to keep your hands away from this mod. (it's not for nothing most PSU have an indication "caution, danger, no servicable parts inside" or something similar). Some PSU's have a little connector connecting the fan to the PSU board. These are the easy ones. You can just unplug and plug the other in. Or make the appropiate plug to the cable if they are different. The difficult ones are those where the fan cable is soldered to the board. Perhaps a new PSU is an easier solution but if you like modding your box...

  3. #13
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    if i wanted to make a case of my own so it would be quiet and cool what matirials would you suggest? i was thinking of keeping the power away from the mobo due to heat and to keep hdd/cdrw etc away from mobo so no etra heat would be produced. i know it don't sound right, but i just wanted to see what works best. any ideas?

  4. #14
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    Drew the best way to built a cool case is using silver. This is one of the best warmth conductors. Your case wil be an enormous cooling system
    Offcourse silver is a little expensive, so better go for aluminium.
    You can use any material you want as long as you have a design in mind that can be cooled. (humm sounds obviuos, sorry)
    The design and the creation of a proper airflow is important. Cabling! Ventilation holes! Look at SGI boxes, the Indy for instance has only one fan that doesn't even run all the time cause they made a proper case at SGI. Like they always tend to do. However with today technology an active sort of cooling (mostly with fans) is (almost) inevitable.

    (If you want to go experimental, peltier cooling is something freaky to use, but be carefull a wrongly placed peltier (wrong side of the conductor at cpu side) can heat up your cpu in stead of cooling down.)

    Keeping the power away means that the fan inside your psu can't be used for system cooling but only for power adaptor cooling. Therefor make sure you add a (silent) fan to drive the warmth away from components. You can make a casefan right above your cpu fan to get the warmth outside the box. Keeping Hdd's and Cdrw's away will possibly be some help, however make sure they are earthed, that means connected to a metal case. You can also buy rounded cables with inbuilt earth wire to reduce the chance of ESD. It's important that HDD's and CDRW's are connected to a metal surface in your box cause they have mechanical rotating parts that may produce static electricity. However many modders don't seem to care about that. I have to admit that I have used experimental boxes without metal cases myself. Perhaps I was lucky not to get problems with ESD? Who knows

    Keeping psu and hdd / cdrw and stuff far from eachother and the mobo will require longer cables and will higher costs. But if it's some thing you have in mind for the project I wouldn't care those extra little bucks, it's not going to be that enormous extra cost but yeah when it comes down to some little extra money for one little tweaky extra feature...

  5. #15
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    I recently saw a box in plexi with separated parts. Keeping the mobo / disks / power away from eachother gave that modded case a reasonable temperature with the used low noise fans. They used a Zalman cooler for the CPU. We all know these Zalman coolers are incredibly silent but not as powerfull as for instance a (loud) Delta cooler therefor I think that here the case was properly made ensuring that the Zalman could easily decrease the cpu temp and get the heat outside. The seperated parts where cooled by fans with sintec sleeve beering (very silent).

  6. #16
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    I really cant say that that tutorial is comprehensive. As A die hard overclocker, I would like to add some things to the cpu cooling section (no offence intended).

    First, the Zalman cpu coolers have never been regaurded as very high performance. If you want a quiet box for grandma, they are fine- but If you want good temps (and im assuming you do if you are reading this thread) they are just no good.

    If you must aircool. The thermalright sk7 and sk8 are good as well as the alphas. Also, I did not see and mention of artic silver there- That can make a good 5c difference in some circumstances over standard white goop.

    For real overclocking, watercooling or phase-change is the only way to go. This has advantages not immediatly apparent in some of the numbers. For one, because the heat is ejected by the radiator, you can choose where it comes out (ie outside the case). This keeps case temps nice and cool and eliminates the need for case fans. Also, when you are overclocking, watercooling handles voltage/load changes better. Say you have a watercooling solution and and air cooling solution at 35c. When you increase the voltage by .2 or something, the air will go up to 43c, but the water will stay at 38c.

    For many sickos (including me). Just watercooling is not enough. A relitively cheap way to get temps hovering just above zero is to by a small mini cube fridge (not the thermoelectric type) and stick the evaporator (part that gets cold) in a 5 gallon or so resivior. Insulate the lines and the cpu with foam/neoprene/dielectric grease/silicone and you have 3c temps spending as little as $225 (the price of many commercial watercooling solutions)

    Another option for the lazy are premade phase change kits (vapochill and prometia). These usally run around $500, but will keep cpu temps at -5c or so. For the non lazy, direct die phase change can be made for about $200 (see www.phase-change.com for more info on that).

    Hope that helped someone.
    \"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand bianary and those who do not\"

  7. #17
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    Originally posted here by n0t 1337
    I really cant say that that tutorial is comprehensive. As A die hard overclocker, I would like to add some things to the cpu cooling section (no offence intended).


    First remark: this tutorial is NOT about oc' ing but about noise and cooling.
    It says "basic cooling and noise" tut. So first of all: basic
    and second noise!

    First, the Zalman cpu coolers have never been regaurded as very high performance. If you want a quiet box for grandma, they are fine- but If you want good temps (and im assuming you do if you are reading this thread) they are just no good.
    what do I say about the Zalman CPU fan for AMD based systems?
    It's a silent fan but not cheap, and performance could have been better.
    like I mentioned -> for better performance choose active cooling like Delta fans.

    If you want to overclock, Delta Fans will probably be more efficient then PAPST, but my tut was about noise and cooling not o/c and cooling.
    The Zalman coolers indeed do not provide enough air flow to ensure proper system cooling / cpu cooling specially when you oc. Besides I always mentioned the ALPHA + PAPST as first choice and the Zalman as a supersilent alternative. Anyway you are right, in most cases Zalman's are just not a good idea. So I had better explained why not to use Zalman's but I mentioned them cause of their good acoustic conditions.

    If you must aircool. The thermalright sk7 and sk8 are good as well as the alphas. Also, I did not see and mention of artic silver there- That can make a good 5c difference in some circumstances over standard white goop.
    Read better, I mentioned the Alpha's (IMHO these are the best heatsinks together with silent PAPST fans. Read more carefully, my whole section g) goes about compounds!
    g) Thermal compounds and Shims
    About thermal paste/grease, today some processors (like Intel P4 S478) ship in boxes with a cooler and thermal grease already been spread.
    It's better not to use extra thermal grease if the processor already has some kind of thermal grease...
    sounds obvious... otherwise use it. It's important that the heatsink makes proper contact with the cpu surface to garantee optimal cooling.
    You can also purchase a copper, aluminium or silver shim to protect the fragile core while using heavy duty heatsink.
    (protect your investment, for instance with a Silver Shim anodized or a ALU Shim)
    Good (expensive?) thermal compounds are silver or ceramic based to assure optimal thermal conductivity.
    note: do not use the Arctic Silver 3 on older slot type Xeon processors they require a thermal pad. (see www.arcticsilver.comfor more info)
    note: there are fake tubes sold for Artic, make sure you don't purchase some fake stuff.
    info about thermal compounds: http://www.arcticsilver.com/
    And if that wasn't enough, in the CPU section (where you are talking about) I said:
    add some Arctic Silver to get better cooling

    You said:
    For real overclocking, watercooling or phase-change is the only way to go. This has advantages not immediatly apparent in some of the numbers. For one, because the heat is ejected by the radiator, you can choose where it comes out (ie outside the case). This keeps case temps nice and cool and eliminates the need for case fans. Also, when you are overclocking, watercooling handles voltage/load changes better. Say you have a watercooling solution and and air cooling solution at 35c. When you increase the voltage by .2 or something, the air will go up to 43c, but the water will stay at 38c.
    Completly true. I agree. But read what I said on top of the tut in the 'what not section'.
    I'm not going to include watercooling, gazcooling or the microfreezer technology.
    The reason herefor is that these are more "extreme" solutions and I have no practical knowledge in this area.
    For more info about liquid cooled computer cases, hdd, cpu's, mem,... visit: http://www.koolance.com
    YOu again:
    For many sickos (including me). Just watercooling is not enough. A relitively cheap way to get temps hovering just above zero is to by a small mini cube fridge (not the thermoelectric type) and stick the evaporator (part that gets cold) in a 5 gallon or so resivior. Insulate the lines and the cpu with foam/neoprene/dielectric grease/silicone and you have 3c temps spending as little as $225 (the price of many commercial watercooling solutions)
    I'm at least honest, and admit that I'm not a specialist in those areas to write a tut. I can built a water cooled or a micro freezer system, but I think one should have gained enough practical and theoretical experience with an item before writing a tut.

    But anyway thx you added this extra info about thge temperature decrease, this can help a lot of people just get their system those few degrees lower they wanted it to be.

    not1337:
    Another option for the lazy are premade phase change kits (vapochill and prometia). These usally run around $500, but will keep cpu temps at -5c or so. For the non lazy, direct die phase change can be made for about $200 (see www.phase-change.com for more info on that).
    Hope that helped someone.
    Ok, this last thing was a real addition.
    Again, all you say is perfectly true when talking about oc'ing. And I'm with you when complaining about my tut. Off course Zalman coolers do not have the performance like other coolers do and compared to wc or microfreezer they are a waste of money but this tutorial just had different goals. Sorry

    Anyways good addition without being to the point. This tutorial was really on: COOLING and NOISE, so it's about reducing noise while still keeping decent cooling.

    Today's high performance boxes like P4 and AMD Athlon XP require additional and optimal cooling. This mostly also means more fans and more noise. Our aim is to reduce that noise to a minimum.
    Anyway, like I said, the tutorial is in no way comprehensive and therefor all inputs are welcome. It would been really dumb to claim that the tutorial was complete, therefor all info that can help members wether it's noise and cooling or it's oc'ing and cooling is appreciated (I think). So I'm not trying to 'get you back' not1337 or something similar, no I'm trying to clear out that this wasn't about oc'ing and that when it was about oc'ing it would have been a very bad tutorial.

  8. #18
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    To the post about using peltiers. I have tried to use them once. I didnt get far due to a crack in the body of the peltier (but thats what you get for buying cheap and not from a dealer) They are fussy and you have to protect everything from condensation that will occur. Also if you dont have enough power coming from your PSU you could be in for a [sarcasm]"fun"[/sarcasm] time. I would personally like a phase change system and am working on an LN2 cooling system but as you said this isnt a tutorial on extreme cooling.

    PeacE
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