October 14th, 2002, 04:14 AM
A thought came to me while I was browsing around a few of the threads i've seen on here after seeing several people (or possibly one...) had subscribed to this particular thread with the same little tag in front of thier s/n. I'm assuming they're in some 'hacker group' or 'clan' as they sometimes get called. I've seen plenty of them around, flaunting in the chat rooms and what not that they're hacking my computer, they know how to use sub7...and that makes them '1337' ..etc etc. However, my curiosity started itching and so I decided to ask the AO community what they thought of these groups and how they felt about thier activities. I know many of them are simply warez groups that trade and sell online (or in RL), but almost certainly most of them are simply 13 year old kids who sit at home and download canned script kiddy lamer progs off of websites, but there are some out there who genuinely know what they're doing...my only question is, what good does it do to even belong to such a group? The more well known groups (H.O.P.E., Cult of the Dead Cow, etc) are more than likely not engaging in any illegal activity because if they're notorious in this area, then the government's prolly got (at least the known members) them under surveilance, so I doubt they're plotting to hack the pentagon or anything.
October 14th, 2002, 04:21 AM
I guess you feel a belonging and you feel you can share knowledge and exploits or whatever with your fellow run-in buddies. Most people just like the thought of hacking with a group of friends or trying to make a name for yourself that way. I personally don't deal with Hacking groups or whatever. I don't deal with anything like that at all, but my answer to your question is that to feel a sense of belonging, to share info, and to make a name for yourself. Asides, if they are 13 year old kiddies, more than likely they'll think it's just "cool" to hack with buddies.
October 14th, 2002, 04:35 AM
That's true, but my question was aimed a lil more towards those who aren't simply script kiddies, the ones with serious skill and knowledge in what they do. Ya, sharin' exploits n info is a good idea, but why bother with naming yourselves, putting out ads, boasting publicly, telling other people openly that you hack (chat rooms, message boards..etc) and then telling them that you're part of that group? It almost reminds me a bit of street gangs and how they act. Of course none of them are dealing drugs (probably ) but they do sell warez...I dunno, perhaps its because of my excessive paranoia but the whole group thing, where you're actually intending to make yourself known as someone who does illegal activities, then further putting yourself in the spot light by including yourself to a group of people who (will be because of someone advertising thier membership to the group) are known for doing the same thing. It seems an awfully stupid thing to do to me...but thas jus me
October 14th, 2002, 08:24 AM
I first got into 'hacking' by myself because i thought it was 'cool' etc. I had always looked up at people that had this almost magic power over computers, allowing them to do whatever they wanted to, and to go where ever they wanted. I started out at the age of 13 with progs like sub7, trying to work them with friends. But i got bored of it, and left behind me.
Now that i am older (17) and acctually have half a brain, i realised that wasnt cool what i was doing, and just lame sc1p7 k1dd13 stuff. Ok back to the main point: I have a friend that i learn with now, who is in my software class, and i think why people join groups is because its much easier to learn, and more fun as well. We try and out do each other, and try and do wargames faster than each other, its mutial competition. Now im more into security, which is why i joined this loverly group of people.
Hope you enjoyed the little story of my life
October 14th, 2002, 08:38 AM
I used to belong to a clan and I still am a respected (I hope) Antionline-Clan-Member
Some of the clans (major ones) do seem like a street gang.. and they also stick out for each other in a smae (sometimes ridiculous) way..
Once (when I was younger) I rooted a box (unicode bug) belonging to a member of a notorious clan (in the Netherlands @ that time)..
They went after my home adress (dial in number -> home adress) and it realy got a bit nasty..
Luckily we talked it out and in the end I joined the clan, becouse I had proven myselve..
It was a good feeling, the warmth of the clan in the cold depths of cyberspace.
We did some realy bad things and bragged about it.. that's how some of us got cought.
Luckily we only knew each other ( for the most part ) by nickname..
The rest of the clan comforted each other and swore revenge..
That way a lot of other members were cought in a later stage..
Some were fined, others got bad remarks on their "criminal record" (however it is called in english)..
The clan was defeated by the law..
this was almost 9 years ago.. so this clan-cult thing is atleast 10 years old.. perhaps even older..
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI.
When in Russia, pet a PETSCII.
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October 14th, 2002, 02:36 PM
Umm, H.O.P.E. is not a group. It is a conference. Kinda like Defcon. Just wanted to clear that up.
Different groups have different focuses and it changes what they work on. Look at the Deceptive Duo. They were out for popularity by defacing gov sites. What would you think if you could type your name into google, and get back 40,000+ results, and they were all actually about you?
Then there were groups like the old l0pht. They actually wrote programs and exploits. They were not all about defacing pages, but about distributing information.
And then there are groups like DTM. Our current focus is on 802.11 security. We don't give a **** about defacing webpages. We really don't care about being popular because of our research. We just work together to find ways to exploit and secure systems to further our own knowledge, and maybe help a few people on the way.
\"Ignorance is bliss....
but only for your enemy\"
October 14th, 2002, 03:35 PM
"Hacker_groups" & "Gangs".... There is a big difference within the two. I think some of you are mixing them together.
Hacker groups: are places where programers can show off their skills but s.kiddies will eventually grab some usefull info and code.
Gangs: are groups of s.kiddies who trade stuff because they are to wimpy to even learn the simplest languages.
October 14th, 2002, 05:19 PM
I think the appeal of "gangs" is just the safety-in-numbers mentality. The younger kids are in it to have fun and to learn, the more advanced members are in it to belong and be respected. It is my opinion that having a more advanced mentor is necessary to adequately learn the ins and outs of something so complex. I do, however think that belonging to a clan can stunt the maturity of a budding hacker and possibly be dangerous. If you learn your skills through hard work on your own part, than your willingness to use them for malicious purposes often decreases in direct inverse proportion to your ability to do so. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. (hehe Dennis Miller)
:q :q! :wq :w :w! :wq! :quit :quit! :help help helpquit quit quithelp :quitplease :quitnow :leave :**** ^X^C ^C ^D ^Z ^Q QUITDAMMIT ^[:wq GCS,M);d@;p;c++;l++;u ++ ;e+ ;m++(---) ;s+/+ ;n- ;h* ;f+(--) ;!g ;w+(-) ;t- ;r+(-) ;y+(**)
October 14th, 2002, 06:13 PM
I definitely feel that Hacker Groups and Gangs have differences and similarities. Both can be bad and some can be good. I think even Gangs can be good, and Hacker Groups can be bad, it's all in the prospect of what yor goal is in the group. If it is to deface a website, your goal is bad. If it is to learn and to share knowledge, than your goal is an impressive one.
October 14th, 2002, 07:46 PM
I don't know much about hacking. I can barely turn on a computer, which is why I'm here. I wonder, though, and this might show my stupidity on the subject but I'll say it anyway. With all the c**p that's going on in the world, rather than the various hacker groups focusing on the Pentagon and other govt sites, why not angle them toward the Mid East and some of the bad guy groups over there and all over the world? Is this a really dumb idea, or is it possible?