Bush, Iraq, N.Korea

[SarinMage]

and now begins the event that will shape WWIII....

pay attention everyone this will be on the next history lesson....oh wait......were all gonna be dead because bush wants to hit the big red button a million times.......


http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/10/17/us.nkorea/index.html


what does everyone else think... are we... no is our government getting us into something that we really shouldent be. Are we shaping a better or worse future for ourselves?

are we on the brink of world war III?

waht are your opinions on Bushes presidency and the situations in iraq and abroad.

[Dr Toker]

I think Korea coming out and saying they have a nucular weapons program is a lil suspiciouse.
I mean think about it, If you were on BUSH's axis of evil, would you tell him you had Nucular weapons. Hell NO, not after seeing what he is doing to Iraq. I dont think they said it just to be honest either. I think they have been consorting with China everysince the Axis of Evil speach. Now that China has their back, they feel like its ok to do what ever they want. Much like Israel does. I feel if we got into a war with china, it would be over. I think once they get tired of America pushing its weight around, they will start pushing theirs around. And belive it or not they have more than weight than we do.

[mmelby]

I do not believe we are headed for WWIII.

I am also sure we have been aware of North Korea's activities for quite some time. The fact that it is now made public will not change our stance. I beleive Saddam should be made to disappear. There are just some leaders that should not have weapons of mass destruction. A country having that capability should be stable. I would not consider Iraqs leadership stable. On the other hand even though North Korea may be Communist and considered by some to be wrong their leadership could be considered stable and not the same threat level as Iraq.

Right now I am behind our countries leaders and support them.

[debwalin]

IMO, what Korea has done is painted Bush into a corner...he can't get out of this with any "face." He has been stomping up and down and making an eejit out of himself about Iraq. Now a bigger country, who is really more of a threat than Iraq, has stepped out and said "Look what we have..whatcha gonna do?" They know they are in the famed axis of evil, that Bush has been making such a fuss about..and now they have called his bluff.

Deb

[shockwaveX343]

"I feel if we got into a war with china, it would be over. I think once they get tired of America pushing its weight around, they will start pushing theirs around. And belive it or not the have more than weight than we do."


The danger with the U.S. involved in action everywhere is that it's stretching itself thin and that's where the opportunity exists for a large country or a coaltion of countries that are unfriendly to the west just waiting to use
the element of suprise and launch conventional invasions of there the own you can't be everywhere and they know that not only will there be 3 or 4 war fronts going on in europe, the midde east, asia/ south east asia
meanwhile sleeper terrorists positioned everywhere will create enough chaos to keep things
busy in other ways. Am I scared hell yeah.

[bshver]

My read on this is that N. Korea is basically trying to show off. They are telling the United States "look, we can make nuclear weapons and you didn't even know we were trying." N. Korea is current position on the US's hit list is rather advantageous at this point. They can pretty much say whatever they want at the moment. The US, gearing up for a confrontation with Iraq, is not going to be committing itself to 2 separate conflicts if at all possible. With support for a war with Iraq seemingly declining lately, trying to rally support for another conflict is not going to happen.

In addition, the Iraq situation is due, primarily, to the oil Iraq is sitting on. No matter what is said about weapons of mass-destruction, oil is the key. N. Korea has no oil fields, and can hardly feed its own people.

Another advantage for N. Korea is China. If the US starts a ground war (or any kind of war) with Korea, China is going to get involved, and, with over a billion people, they are definitely a formidable adversary.

Basically, I think N. Korea is just taking advantage of the situation to show off it's technical prowess (however meager that may be). The interesting thing to watch will be Bush's official reaction...will he commit the US to 2 controversial conflicts while support is dwindling.

[The Old Man]

.....Did someone mention China up there? Anyone know how far from our major cities the Panama Canal is? Anyone got any ideas how many simultaneous rockets with nuke heads could be fired from the holds of cargo ships that got 'accidentally stuck' in the Panama Canal all at one time, coupled with others at sea in various locations? Anyone got any ideas how many of those nukes we could successfully fire on within the window of interception after their firing was observed and evaluated then reported, evaluated then reported, evaluated then reported, then an order to go back down the chain of command? I won't even insult your intelligence by asking if anyone knows who controls the Panama Canal, lock-stock-and-barrel... Don't mean to be pessimistic, y'all, just wonderin' if anyone has been thinking of this tidbit...

[SarinMage]

i believe that if things continue to go the way they are and more nations "tease" bush by waioving around there big bright orange flag that says "WE HAVE A BIG BOMB" hes gonna get pissed off and send some of us (troops) over there to deal with it for him.

if they keep poking at bush hes gonna poke back...

[Tedob1]

Nobody stands to profit more than our leaders from a good cold war:


http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=5103

http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html

http://www.redherring.com/vc/2002/0111/947.html

http://www.truthout.org/docs_01/01.1....Carlyle.p.htm


just do a google search "george bush sr executive carlyle group"

[roswell1329]

Originally posted here by The Old Man
.....Did someone mention China up there? Anyone know how far from our major cities the Panama Canal is? Anyone got any ideas how many simultaneous rockets with nuke heads could be fired from the holds of cargo ships that got 'accidentally stuck' in the Panama Canal all at one time, coupled with others at sea in various locations? Anyone got any ideas how many of those nukes we could successfully fire on within the window of interception after their firing was observed and evaluated then reported, evaluated then reported, evaluated then reported, then an order to go back down the chain of command? I won't even insult your intelligence by asking if anyone knows who controls the Panama Canal, lock-stock-and-barrel... Don't mean to be pessimistic, y'all, just wonderin' if anyone has been thinking of this tidbit...

Old Man -- From what I understand, nukes tend to ooze radiation at a pretty steady rate. Isn't it probable that we have the satellite imaging technology to identify surface vessels carrying nukes? I'd be willing to bet we could pinpoint any weapon with a nominal yield greater than 5 kilotons (1/3rd of Hiroshima).

I tend to believe that political motives are usually much less secretive than people think. That may make me either terribly naive or bureaucratically savvy, but either way I think North Korea is revealing this information to protect their interests. They cannot afford to thumb their nose at the global community. By revealing this now, maybe they are hoping the US will hold them in a better light then we currently hold Iraq by this show of good faith. They've seen how swiftly we're moving toward action against Iraq, and perhaps they're trying to shake the 'Axis of Evil' stigma. Sometimes it pays to take a look at a country's current economic/military/political situation and make an educated guess on motives. Take a look at some of North Korea's statistics:

GDP: $21.8 billion
Military Expenditures: $5,124,100,000
Exports: $708 million
Export Partners: Japan 40%, South Korea 24%, Hong Kong 7%, China 6%, France 4%, Germany 4%
Imports: $1.686 billion

Compare those with that of the US:

GDP: $10.082 trillion
Military Expenditures: $276.7 billion
Exports: $723 billion
Export Partners: Canada 22.4%, Mexico 13.9%, Japan 7.9%, UK 5.6%, Germany 4.1%, France, Netherlands
Imports: $1.148 trillion

Looking at the above, I personally don't think North Korea is in a position to challenge the US. It's possible that they're looking at our current situation with Iraq as an 'opportunity', but that's not too probable. By announcing this now, they're jeopardizing their relationship with the US and with Japan who is a huge contributor to their economy. This show of good faith may be intended to help dispel some secrecy to further better relationships with other nations. The question now is whether or not they now abandon the program to comply with the treaty, or continue with it.

Besides that there are two main reasons we shouldn't be too concerned with this revelation:

While North Korea may have nuclear weapons now, they still lack a mature enough ballistic missile program to build a vehicle to deliver the weapon beyond a few hundred miles.

If North Korea (or Iraq for that matter) were to use a nuclear weapon in an act of aggression, they would be guaranteeing their own obliteration. Not only would the US retaliate, but every other nation of power would collapse on them.