Newbies vs. Addicts

[1pizzaluvr4u]

I am not sure if this is true, but it seems the more posts you make, the higher your status. If that's the case, why do the higher-ranked members continually bash newbies, especially on one of their first posts? I don't get it. I know it's not all of them, and I'm not implying that it is. But the same members continualy bash newbies for asking what they think are stupid questions. Isn't that part of being higher ranked, answering questions of those who ask them? I mean, come on. There is a reason that Newbies are newbies.....NO EXPERIENCE!!! I hope this post will enlighten the few, and I won't mention names. So please give us Newbies a break. Thanx.

[Striek]

It would seem that many newbies assume that this is the kind of site where they can post a question asking how to gain root access to thier university server, how to portscan it, or work around its firewall, to name a few recent examples. These people need to know that this behaviour will not be tolerated on this site and yes, sometimes they will be flamed, poked fun at, or even banned. This group, from what I have seen, accounts for the majority of new users. And thanks to thier being made fun of, they do not last long.

However, some of these new users come on here asking "How can I protect my computer?" Or "How can I switch to Linux and not get DoS'ed?". Questions I myself have asked. Questions like this are precisely why this site exists and users like this do not deserved to be flamed for thier inquisitiveness. Those who do should be reprimanded. This site was not only designed to help the experts, but the wannabe experts as well. It does not exist as a public forum to flaunt your knowledge over those who do not share it. To humiliate a user who asks these questions serves only to lower thier self-esteem in these matters and to discourage them from learning. I myself am in this position. If you think a specific user is stupid simply because he/she does not know what you know, then keep your opinion to yourself and let a more decent person answer the post.

[ZeroOne]

If only you saw the threads we've got going in the Addicts Forum about you n00bs... j/k!

Sure the status is higher with the post count, but the AP's count at least as much. On what should the status be based then? The limit of being a junior member goes at some 65 posts, then you get to be member, then addict and finally senior.

The ones who blame newbies for stupid questions usually do it for a reason. A stupid question here would be "How do I hack Hotmail?". That is not going to be answered (has been asked about 5*10^9 times and answered 5*10^7 times) as this is not a hacking site and blah blah <insert_disclaimer_here>.

Your sig is interesting...

Need more info? TOO BAD! I hear voices and my voices don't like your voices.

Isn't that a quite good answer to a stupid question?

[waverebel]

Do you get more points / ratings for posting tutorials? I would like to point out that some of the most helpfull replies that I have read are from other newbies. And that you cannot asume that any given newbie has any less experience than any given adict.

Part of being new is trying to help people, that is how you become accepted into a comunity. Showing the script kiddies by example should be more important to the respected members around here than just telling them where to go. If you just flame them then you are setting a bad example for everyone else.

WaveRebel

ps I am not talking about anyone in particular

[x acidreign x]

Originally posted here by 1pizzaluvr4u
I am not sure if this is true, but it seems the more posts you make, the higher your status.

ya, thats the general idea

AntiOnline Newbie - at least 0 posts

AntiOnline Jr. Member - at least 75 posts

AntiOnline Member - at least 175 posts

AntiOnline Addict - at least 275 posts
At this level, a user can use the AO Addicts Forum

AntiOnline Senior Member - at least 400 posts

[ZeroOne]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you yourself pitying istar the newbie because of his ultra-newbie status here..:

Originally written by 1pizzaluvr4u here:
You are a newbie, and you don't have many posts. Good luck in your journies and use advice that you get from other members....

I'm pretty sure that istar won't be around here for too long but I just found this interesting.

And that you cannot asume that any given newbie has any less experience than any given adict.

Waverebel, I'm glad you asked. Or pointed this out. Or whatever... just wanted to reply to this particular question. If, and when, some newbie has more experience than an addict, it is very unlikely that this newbie asks stupid questions!

[waverebel]

ZeroOne

Waverebel, I'm glad you asked. Or pointed this out. Or whatever... just wanted to reply to this particular question. If, and when, some newbie has more experience than an addict, it is very unlikely that this newbie asks stupid questions!

Yes it would be nice if no one asked stupid questions, but not every newbie does. I guess the ones that don't cease to be newbies at some point the others just cease to be.

I apologise if I seemed a bit unclear.

WaveRebel

[rvf500]

I was always taught to ask a question you felt was important to you even if you were afraid of looking stupid, the chances are that half a dozen or so people around you may be wanting to ask the same question but are even more afraid to ask. Anyone worth their salt will answer without making you feel stupid. The rest aren't worth bothering with.

However, a request for information on how to hack hotmail or the university server does not strike me so much as stupid but unethical. It seems to go against the spirit on which this site was founded and is one of the first things mentioned in the welcoming e-mail (re: faqs) so getting flamed for asking something such as that is perhaps to be expected?

And yes, I'm a newbie too....I came here because this site is actually mentioned by Cisco in one of their publications. I am currently studying to become (well try to become) a security professional.

[SodaMoca5]

If I may wade in here for a second.

First there have been threads on being easier on Newbies even those that post the "How do I hack Hotmail" question.

The point most of the more senior members of this list try to make, sometimes with poor or misunderstood methods, is that a member can search for their answer first. Many of the very basic questions have been answered many times. Therefore ALL members are encouraged to first search for old threads and even Google for a quick answer before posting a new thread.

That is one of the reasons when I post a question I always start of with a disclaimer mentioning that I have looked for the topic and have not found an adequate reply (this must be true to be effective). This simple step covers two things, 1) It helps the person learn to solve their own problems (which many true newbies need), 2) it stops the site from being overloaded with the same basic questions (which leads to frustration with long term members) and 3) it speeds up the time in which most questions get answered.

There is a move, and I believe it has been fairly successful, to restrain negging new members and give them some time to learn the ropes. After you have a number of posts and a few greenies to your name and then if you post "How do I hack Hotmail" I will be the first in line to neg you And quite pleased to because it will tend to center my bar.

The other move which all should be aware of is that negs without names is cowardly. Explain why you negged and sign your neg (some may make an exception for a new member negging someone with a string of Greens because the damage of a retaliation can be devastating).

Finally let us be very certain that we understand the difference between a New Member and and Newbie to Security. Many of the new members are not new to security and computers. Their answers can be as pertinent, precise, and informative as any member of this forum. However it will take time to build up their ratings so others can note that easily. It is true that the number of greens may indeed be used as an indicator that this person probably knows what they are talking about. However the reverse is not at all true. Judge the response by the quality of the post not the number of green dots.

New members should be encouraged and directed. If they resist that and still insist on trying to be Crackers then I have no qualms if they get negged off of this site.

I hope this helps to clarify things.

[aeallison]

I know you did not mention names, but, I tend to try to give the newbies a boost when they deserve it. Of course, if they post really stupid crap, or are just being annoying by their aura of gross immatureity/ignorance, I will slap them with a neg, usually I try to coach them on the proper behavior and give them a few greenies. But I have also been ignored by some (you know who you are too!) and as far as I am concerned those peeps will get no help from me, nor will I aknowledge them with APs (ok maybe some reds). This is just me, like it or not...