Please say thanks

[Negative]

Originally posted by HurrayForSchool
...where would we (Americans) be if we didn't have an army? And I truly believe most US soldiers wouldn't kill INNOCENT citizens but also believe a soldier would protect himself when an Afgan were attacking him with an AK-47.

If you didn't have an army, you'd probably be invaded by Canada or Mexico by this time...
But on the other hand: when is the last time your army played a defensive role? I can't remember, but maybe you can...
And indeed: there's no need to defend America... thanks to the deterrent effect or your army. Heads of the soldiers standing guard in the cold all day and all night...
So far for the defense role of an army. Good job, guys. Now, the other side of the coin: the offensive role of your army. And that's what bothers me about the page 4MidgetHitmen directed us to: the generalization. I wouldn't mind signing that National Military Appreciation if there would at least be a little note, saying something like 'Thank you for standing guard at our borders all day and all night', or explaining how they defend your (so-called, imo) freedom. By signing it now, all you're doing is giving Bush ANOTHER signal to invade (that's offensive, not defensive ) Iraq.
"Over 1,673,000 thank you's already'? No, over 1,673,000 more signals to invade Iraq. And I'm proud not to be part of that group. And if I were American, I'd appreciate if the army also defended MY freedom, my freedom of NOT signing the Appreciation.

Originally posted by Palemoon
Hey Negative, I'll take a stab at why thank them. First off I grew up in the 60's came of age in the 70's the height of the Viet Nam War. We all hated it I seen older classmates go off get killed, we protested. What we forgot though is all of these people that were killed were drafted into service by law. Sure some including one of our Presedents avoided the draft, or went to Canada but most went at 18...children no choice. We as a country learned from this it is not the people that fight war are to be hated it is to honor them because out of no choice or choice the give back maybe with their life to their country because it is duty and they answered or were called. The people that fight the wars have nothing to do the agendas of men or Nations this is for the people we elect at least here in the US. I have the power of one vote and if you so like I can in the USA history tell you what has changed the course of history on one vote. I may not like the fact the US may make a war I hate the fact but turn my back upon the people called to fight it I will not. I at one time was where you are now..question all take it out on who is the cause not the ones providing the manpower.

Thanks for explaining why you signed the Appreciation, Palemoon. You're of course right when you say that most of those soldiers didn't/don't have a choice. My opinion though is that by signing that Appreciation, all you're doing is giving your government a signal: we are right to invade Iraq (just an example), we are right to send innocent Americans to a war they never asked for.
I never meant to target the loyal soldier just doing his duty; you probably know just as well as I do that they don't have a choice. And THAT is what bothers me. THAT is what bothers me about this Appreciation: imo, it's misleading propaganda.
And I'm NOT going to give them a signal saying 'Carry on, carry on, US Government, you're doing an excellent job'...

Originally posted by Ebo
Hey Negative, I will have you know. Before you start posting that kind of stuff you think about who may be on AO. I am a 15 year old boy that is today left with no father, because he was willing to fight and defend this country during Vietnam. He fought in it and developed so many diseases that he faught off long enough to bring his family to the United States of America. So when people send out this kind of Thank yous, one of them may be for my father, so when say that we do not know who we are sending it to, well now you have an idea. My father was a veteran and he would had stood up anyday to fight for this country in good or bad health. If my father, who is now resting in peace was proud enough of this country to fight for them anytime no matter the conditions of his health, well i am also proud of this country and i cherish it for, because my father taught me how to love and cherish the United States of America. You can go ahead and neg me if you are dumb enough not see the kind of pain many people that lost their loved ones in battlefields or after affects from battles. You can neg me if you want, but i believe this is what my father would had done and said if he was a live today to see this post by you.

I am proud to be in America and i love the people that are proud to be American.

That is exactly my concern about this Appreciation, ebo: you DO NOT know who you're sending this to. You come up with a touching story about your father... and I could come up with a horrible story about misbehaving American soldiers. If the Appreciation would have said 'Let's thank Ebo's father', I probably would have signed it. By signing the Appreciation, you're partly responsible for another kid going to be left without a father (don't take that literal, it's just a comparison), because you're giving the American government a signal. AND you're giving the misbehaving American soldier (no doubt there is at least one of that kind) the signal to keep on raping and stealing...

Oh, and btw: 'someone's' signing negative antipoints saying '*******' with your name

Originally posted by detoxsmurf
It also amazing how fast the people of Europe forget who helped them win WWI and WWII. The US military now focuses on bringing stability to 3rd world nations. Perhaps if you saw a child drink the same water that people and animals $#&! in you would have a different outlook.

Don't be mistaken, detoxsmurf: we Europeans don't forget that easily... It's amazing how Americans always come up with that arguement, and again you're using it to proove something completely else and not to the point. The connection between clear water and your arguement is beyond me...

Originally posted by Sgt_B
For all those that say "thank them for what"....you're simply ridiculous people. If your country didn't have an army of any sort guess what would happen. The crazy folks in the world (ie Saddam) would most likely attack, take over, whatever. Don't be so starry-eyed as to think it wouldn't happen. Even if you don't have a big military machine countries like the US would come to your aid. Just like we did in WW1, WW2, Korea, Gulf War...the latter being a bit questionable in my mind, but whatever, you get the point.
Yet you complain...yet if we stood by, and let bad **** happen...guess what....you'd complain.

People who say "Thank them for what" make me sick. You've most likely had it too good in your life to even see the need for military, but there is one. Sorry you can't see it.

I don't fail to see the need for military. My points of view on why you need an army are slightly different than yours, though. I asked a question, and only one or two people were able to give me a satisfiying answer. And I still stand by my point of not signing the Appreciation. Ridiculous or not. You're in the army, you claim to be one of the people 'defending Americans' freedom'... but you're only willing to defend your own point of freedom. Isn't freedom also about having an own opinion? People not signing the Appreciation (for whatever reason) make you sick? Fine, then you're on my list of reasons why I don't want to just thank ANY member of the American army.

Lemmy Kilmister - 1916

16 years old when I went to war,
To fight for a land fit for heroes,
God on my side,and a gun in my hand,
Counting my days down to zero,
And I marched and I fought and I bled
And I died & I never did get any older,
But I knew at the time, That a year in the line,
Is a long enough life for a soldier,
We all volunteered,
And we wrote down our names,
And we added two years to our ages,
Eager for life and ahead of the game,
Ready for history's pages,
And we fought and we brawled
And we whored 'til we stood,
Ten thousand shoulder to shoulder,
A thirst for the Hun,
We were food for the gun,and that's
What you are when you're soldiers,
I heard my friend cry,
And he sank to his knees,coughing blood
As he screamed for his mother
And I tell by his, side,
And that's how we died,
Clinging like kids to each other,
And I lay in the mud
And the guts and the blood,
And I wept as his body grew colder,
And I called for my mother
And she never came,
Though it wasn't my fault
And I wasn't to blame,
The day not half over
And ten thousand slain,and now
There's nobody remembers our names
And that's how it is for a soldier.

whats wrong about invading Iraq moron, I dont like war as much as you do, what do you want diplomacy to Iraq

Now I understand why that Appreciation is kept so simple: just typing your name, your city, and picking your state and country, then clicking a button is something even you can do.

you are an anti-american, this just prove's it. No one wants to hear ur anti-american opinions.

I ain't anti-American or I wouldn't be here.

Go **** yourself ... Last time I chcked you wouldn't have a ****ing country if it weren't for a US service member dumbass..

Last time I checked you wouldn't be writing your very bright comment in English if it weren't for Europe - there's that lame arguement again, only this time it ain't even used to back up something not-to-the-point. And someone give this dude a Nobel-prize.

If you have an issue with them being there, take it up with the president and/or congress, not the average joe fighting for his country.

I ain't American, Bush wouldn't listen to me... and by posting against that Appreciation, I AM taking it up with the president and/or congress. Maybe my voice will get through to someone who won't vote for Bush anymore - not that it matters how many votes he gets, but anyways...

[HurrayForSchool]

If you didn't have an army, you'd probably be invaded by Canada or Mexico by this time...

Negative, back in the 1940's, there was a guy named Adolf Hitler, whom we thought hated the Jewish (you may have heard of him) . He started a thing called the Holocaust which some Americans believed it was going on. As more and more Jews were murdered we sat around and hesitated, sat around and hesitated, discussed it a bit, and sat around. Near the end of the war, millions of Jews had been killed in concentration camps. America just watched.

Now, we jump ahead 60 years and what do we have:
A guy named Suddam Hussein exists which we KNOW he hates a certain race and has the power of taking that race out if he wanted to. And what, exactly, are Americans doing now? Sitting around, hesitating, and discussing it. Doesn't it seem that we (Americans) don't learn from our mistakes?

The problem is that if Americans charge into Iraq without the support of the United Nations, we will be portrayed as "bullies". That is why Bush is hesitating and attempting to win the support of the U.N. , so people such as yourself (no offense, you are certainly entitled to your opinion) don't think we are are "bullies".

You have given your opinion of what we shouldn't do, so can you now give a suggestion of what we should do?

Watch it happen on CNN?- Your right, techniquely, it isn't any of our business considering the war on Iraq is in Iraq, not the U.S.

What do you think?

[Sgt_B]

People not signing the Appreciation (for whatever reason) make you sick? Fine, then you're on my list of reasons why I don't want to just thank ANY member of the American army.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I never said people who don't want to sign it make me sick. If you don't want to sign it, then that's fine. You think that signing it is a signal to the US gov that you agree with an Iraq invasion, then that's fine too. I never condemned you for not wanting to sign the thank you card.

I don't fail to see the need for military. My points of view on why you need an army are slightly different than yours, though. I asked a question, and only one or two people were able to give me a satisfiying answer. And I still stand by my point of not signing the Appreciation. Ridiculous or not. You're in the army, you claim to be one of the people 'defending Americans' freedom'... but you're only willing to defend your own point of freedom. Isn't freedom also about having an own opinion?

How can you assume that you know what my views are? Either way, I'm not 'only willing to defend my own point of freedom'. The whole premise of freedom is the ability of each and every individual to have and voice their own opinion. That is what I believe in. Don't presume to know what I will and will not put my life on the line for.

If your country were invaded (sorry I can't see your flag right now) and your freedom was being threatened...I'd be more than happy to hop on a boat, and get my ass over there so I could do some good. That is what I'm willing to defend.

The "make me sick" comment was directed towards those who portray the US military as a bunch of warmongers bent on imposing our own will on everyone in the world. Its damn disrespectful to anyone who's ever fought or served for what they believe in.
Not whether or not you signed the damn card.

[4MidgetHitmen]

I don't fail to see the need for military. My points of view on why you need an army are slightly different than yours, though. I asked a question, and only one or two people were able to give me a satisfiying answer. And I still stand by my point of not signing the Appreciation. Ridiculous or not. You're in the army, you claim to be one of the people 'defending Americans' freedom'... but you're only willing to defend your own point of freedom. Isn't freedom also about having an own opinion?

In short Negitive you are wrong... I am not only willing to defend my point of freedom... I am willing to defend yours as well... I may not agree with what you have to say, I amy not agree with your religion, I amy not even like you very much, you may be a totla stranger to me, you may be a man, you may be a woman, you may be gay, you may be straight, you may be married, you may be single, you may be old, you may be young, you may be disabled, you may be able bodied, you may be black, you may be white... None of that matters... What matters is that their are people like myself, my wife, SGT B., and all the members of the US military who are willng to die for your right to think, say, and do any damn thing you please... Can you say you would do the same for me??? I seriously doubt it... the above reason alone is worth a general "Thank You.." IMO I think that you are a bit misguided in your vision of what the thank you page is for... It is not any kind of signal to the Bush Administration that it is ok to hit Iraq... It is nothing more then a way for the people of the US to say thnaks to the sons and daughters who put themselves in harms way for our sack and to a limited degree yours Negitive... Every year newspapers around the US have letter writting campaign to servicemen and women who can not be home for teh holidays... The letters are sent in to the paper in an envelope addressed "Dear Service Member" and nothing else... It, like the link is just another way to say you are appreciated for your service... You don't want to shoot off a thank you no problem... Just please don't bash or question the morality of those of us who feel it is a good thing to do... You want to argue why we shouldn't be at war great... Start another thread...

And a note to those who decided to blast Negative via the AP system: I sign every AP assignment I give, good or bad, IMO it is the only honorable thing to do... Calling him names is not a very good way to get your point across IMO... It only serves to weaken your stand and argument... Just my $.02...

Finally to Negative: Motorhead rocks...

[kwiep]

Don't be mistaken, detoxsmurf: we Europeans don't forget that easily... It's amazing how Americans always come up with that arguement, and again you're using it to proove something completely else and not to the point. The connection between clear water and your arguement is beyond me...

Dat ze dat nu onderhand eens daar gaan krijgen... Sjonge jonge. Ok Negative Patriotisme van de nederlandstaligen. De Amerikanen (die eigelijk maar een stel uit de boot gevallen gereformeerde waren) hebben voor een groot deel toch wel gezorgd dat er veel problemen kwamen in derder wereldslandjes met weinig water etc. Al het geld dat aan bomen en wapens, die ow zo geliefde wapens wordt uitgegeven zouden ze goed kunnen gebruiken om waterpompen aan te leggen of, misschen zelfs beter, eerst hun eigen problemen eens op te lossen. Problemen hebben ze net zo veel binnenshuis die Amerkanen als erbuiten. Of ze nou heldendaden hebben wericht of niet. In de Wereld Oorlogen zijn trouwens miljoenen belgen gestorven die hun eigen land verdedigde in loopgraven of in wat voor anders dan ook. Die vergeten we ook niet. De Amerikanen hebben langs de Canadezen (!) en Engelse en Fransen en zelfs Spanjaarden gevochten, niet alleen !!

Ik kan nog wel ddoorgaan, maar het is al laat. Amerika moet van haar klote houding af, wij hebben zelf ook genoeg gedaan en wij gaan niet voor elk fritsfratsje goedheid (hoeveel of hoe weinig kwaadheid er ook tegenover stond) een website maken waar we ze allemaal kunnen bedanken, al die soldaten waarvan er maar een iets gedaan heeft dat misschien genoeg was geweest voor een medaille, als de ander hem nog niet al gekregen had.

[mrcoffee12]

kwiep

Dat ze dat nu onderhand eens daar gaan krijgen... Sjonge jonge. Ok Negative Patriotisme van de nederlandstaligen. De Amerikanen (die eigelijk maar een stel uit de boot gevallen gereformeerde waren) hebben voor een groot deel toch wel gezorgd dat er veel problemen kwamen in derder wereldslandjes met weinig water etc. Al het geld dat aan bomen en wapens, die ow zo geliefde wapens wordt uitgegeven zouden ze goed kunnen gebruiken om waterpompen aan te leggen of, misschen zelfs beter, eerst hun eigen problemen eens op te lossen. Problemen hebben ze net zo veel binnenshuis die Amerkanen als erbuiten. Of ze nou heldendaden hebben wericht of niet. In de Wereld Oorlogen zijn trouwens miljoenen belgen gestorven die hun eigen land verdedigde in loopgraven of in wat voor anders dan ook. Die vergeten we ook niet. De Amerikanen hebben langs de Canadezen (!) en Engelse en Fransen en zelfs Spanjaarden gevochten, niet alleen !!

Ik kan nog wel ddoorgaan, maar het is al laat. Amerika moet van haar klote houding af, wij hebben zelf ook genoeg gedaan en wij gaan niet voor elk fritsfratsje goedheid (hoeveel of hoe weinig kwaadheid er ook tegenover stond) een website maken waar we ze allemaal kunnen bedanken, al die soldaten waarvan er maar een iets gedaan heeft dat misschien genoeg was geweest voor een medaille, als de ander hem nog niet al gekregen had.

Well, I understand some of it but I doubt most people can even say that, so how bout a translation into English?

Back to topic, the thank you is not a signal to the US government to go ahead and attack Iraq, it is as 4midgethitmen said:

It is not any kind of signal to the Bush Administration that it is ok to hit Iraq... It is nothing more then a way for the people of the US to say thnaks to the sons and daughters who put themselves in harms way for our sack and to a limited degree yours Negitive

Personally I am more than happy to sign this and I'm glad that 4midgethitmen posted that link. I am grateful to the members of the armed forces that enforce peace around the world, ironically through force, and I'm also grateful to the members that live 3000 miles from home just to protect our borders (not that we really need it) and the ones that live 13,000 miles from home to patrol some 3rd world country just so that they (the citizens of those countries) can live peaceful lives without some psycopathic dictator ordering them beat nearly to death.

[Palemoon]

Simple fact is every country on the face of this earth has good points and bad, it is when you sit eat the food listen to the music and dance the dance that you understand we are all so all different..it is when you are among family. Don't know I look at humanity becuse it excludes no one, it understands the basic need for a mother, father, brother, sister, a family to just say we are here. Damn place is going nuts lately even more so then the 60's, 70's oh 80's, 90's are a wash...cost of corp greed..

[SodaMoca5]

One point Negative you ask why WWII is always brought up and say you see no connection. However you are also drawing many historical arguments. "When was the last time the American Military Operated Defensively?" and bringing up past incidents which are not American only in nature but are endemic to armies of every nationality during times of conflict. I could bring up past history of your nation (have to go way past for anything I am familiar with) or research for more recent incidents I am sure. However none of these affect the current situation. However, if you allow yourself to bring up the past why then deny and ridicule others when they use the same tactic. You bring up the dirt and they bring up one of the shining moments of past American military actions.

I truthfully do not think you should sign the petition Negative, you aren't American. I think you should write to and encourage your own soldiers. But you draw conclusions on very scant evidence and then rebuke others who operate in the same manner. I believe that is a shortcoming of your argument. Now I did enjoy your sarcastic responses to those who so eloquently answered "You Suck" or "A******" none of that is warranted here IMO. You are stating your opinion and the reasons. They show a far different viewpoint from mine but they in no way illustrate your basic nature only your outlook. I appreciate you having the fortitude to post here openly and suffer the slings and arrows (and negs) of those who cannot accept an opposing view. I also appreciate the more lucid arguments posted here that do reflect my opinion like: 4MH, Sgt B, Palemoon, HurrayForSchool, and others.

Like 4MH I must make this statement, I sign all my Positive and Negative AP's. If you receive one from me you will know who and why. I do not assign neg AP's for honest opinions even if I think they are really bad or skewed. I especially don't assign them when they are simply different from mine, like yours, and represent a very real and common attitude which is why the current situation is so delicate and debated.

Sincerely,

[detoxsmurf]

when is the last time your army played a defensive role? I can't remember, but maybe you can...

I consider our National Guard troops to be playing a defensive role on American soil. These soldiers have been activated for up to 2 years to do airport security, guard military bases and nuclear powerplants.

Don't be mistaken, detoxsmurf: we Europeans don't forget that easily... It's amazing how Americans always come up with that arguement, and again you're using it to proove something completely else and not to the point. The connection between clear water and your arguement is beyond me...

I disagree, I feel there is a connection between the world wars, the liberating of Kuwait from Iraq and peace keeping missions of today. The warlords in some of these 3rd world countries are committing "human crimes" against their own people. They rule on fear, they force their people to starve and in some cases commit genocide. Some people prefer to look the other way and pretend it doesn't happen. However I have seen how these people live first hand in these countries. The US military goes in and brings stability to the region. The UN will bring in food and medical supplies for the people of the country. The army corp. of engineers will build new homes for the people and help clean up on the water supply. It's not perfect solution but its a start.

Oh, and btw: 'someone's' signing negative antipoints saying '*******' with your name

I disagree with assigning negative antipoints on a thread like this. Everybody has a right to an opinion. I've also been negged on this post, however the individuals didn't leave any comments or names.

[Conf1rm3d_K1ll]

I think the pic sums it up nicely.......