1984 revisited
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  1. #1
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    Exclamation 1984 revisited

    This is to much even for my conservative butt... This is one peice of techno crap that I hope never gets off the drawing board...


    WASHINGTON — A massive database that the government will use to monitor every purchase made by every American citizen is a necessary tool in the war on terror, the Pentagon said Wednesday.

    Edward Aldridge, undersecretary of Acquisitions and Technology, told reporters that the Pentagon is developing a prototype database to seek "patterns indicative of terrorist activity." Aldridge said the database would collect and use software to analyze consumer purchases in hopes of catching terrorists before it's too late.

    "The bottom line is this is an important research project to determine the feasibility of using certain transactions and events to discover and respond to terrorists before they act," he said.

    Aldridge said the database, which he called another "tool" in the war on terror, would look for telltale signs of suspicious consumer behavior.

    Examples he cited were: sudden and large cash withdrawals, one-way air or rail travel, rental car transactions and purchases of firearms, chemicals or agents that could be used to produce biological or chemical weapons.

    It would also combine consumer information with visa records, passports, arrest records or reports of suspicious activity given to law enforcement or intelligence services.

    The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency is home to the Pentagon's brightest thinkers -- the ones who built the Internet. DARPA will be in charge of trying to make the system work technically.

    Rear Adm. John Poindexter, former national security adviser to President Reagan, is developing the database under the Total Information Awareness Program. Poindexter was convicted on five counts of misleading Congress and making false statements during the Iran-Contra investigation. Those convictions were later overturned, but critics note that his is a dubious resume for someone entrusted with so sensitive a task.

    Aldridge said Poindexter will only "develop the tool, he will not be exercising the tool." He said Poindexter brought the database idea to the Pentagon and persuaded Aldridge and others to pursue it.

    "John has a real passion for this project," Aldridge said.

    TIAF's office logo is now one eye scanning the globe. The translation of the Latin motto: knowledge is power. Some say, possibly too much power. "What this is talking about is making us a nation of suspects and I am sorry, the United States citizens should not have to live in fear of their own government and that is exactly what this is going to turn out to be," said Chuck Pena, senior defense policy analyst at the Cato Institute.

    Pena and others say the database is an even greater violation of privacy rights than Attorney General John Ashcroft's nixed proposal to turn postal workers and delivery men into government tipsters. No matter what protections Congress requires, Pena fears a database big enough and nimble enough to track the entire nation's spending habits is ripe for abuse.

    "I don't think once you put something like this in place, you can ever create enough checks and balances and oversight," Pena said.

    But proponents say big business already has access to most of this data, but don't do anything with it to fight terrorism.

    "I find it somewhat counter intuitive that people are not concerned that telemarketers and insurance companies can acquire this data but feel tremendous trepidation if a government ventures into this arena. To me it just smacks of paranoia," said David Rivkin, an attorney for Baker & Hostetler LLP.

    The database is not yet ready and Aldridge said it will not be available for several years. Fake consumer data will be used in development of the database, he said.

    When it's ready, Aldridge said individual privacy rights will be protected. But he could not explain how the data would be accessed. In some cases, specific warrants would give law enforcement agencies access, he said. But in other cases the database might flag suspicious activity absent a specific request or warrant, and that suspicious activity could well be relayed to law enforcement or intelligence agencies.

    "I don't know what the scope of this is going to be," Aldridge said. "We are in a war on terrorism. We are trying to find out if this technology can work."
    \"Nuts!\"- Commanding General 101st Airborne Division Dec 1944 in answer to German request that he surrender Bastogne during the Battle of the Bulge
    Life has a certian flavor for those who have fought and risked it all that the sheltered and protected can never experience.- John Stewart Mill
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  2. #2
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    Wouldn't that violate some right or anything? Because if this come's true, people would be very noted about what they buy and everything. For instance, someone might not want to buy a condom if the government or some guy seeing the records see's he bought one. The guy would obviously be ashamed or something. My question however is How are they going to have exact records (or records period) of every purchase on American Soil?..
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  3. #3
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    yeah, good post midgetman. Yes, how exactly will they track us?
    I read somewhere you shouldn\'t always believe what you read so what the Hell am I supposed to do?

  4. #4
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    I see 2 problems with them trying to do this.

    1) This would have to rely on Credit card transactions since I dont see how they could track cash purchases to individuals.

    2) This would require them to store every active credit card number on one central computer, allowing any wrong doers central access to a bank of card numbers.

    Sounds like too much trouble to me. Good post though, I look forward to see any developments on it
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  5. #5
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    I would like to know why people negged it though.
    I read somewhere you shouldn\'t always believe what you read so what the Hell am I supposed to do?

  6. #6
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    I would imagine that in order to track all transactions like they want it would require everyone to use some form of ID number (SSN perhaps) when they make a purchase.. Sounds very Biblical to me... "And none shall be able to buy or sell save the have the mark of the Beast or the number of His mark..."
    \"Nuts!\"- Commanding General 101st Airborne Division Dec 1944 in answer to German request that he surrender Bastogne during the Battle of the Bulge
    Life has a certian flavor for those who have fought and risked it all that the sheltered and protected can never experience.- John Stewart Mill
    White, Hetrosexual, Christian male. I own guns, hunt, eat meat, burn wood, and my wife wears fur... Any questions?

  7. #7
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    There's a thread about this over at http://www.wilders.org/links.htm in the privacy forum. The person who posted it was in Washington lobbying against passage of the bill. Worth going over and reading it. There's a whole lot more involved than just purchases. The way the bill is written, ANY dissent against govt actions regarding terrorism can be prosecuted if they want to use the law literally. Pretty damned scary, and I'm as right wing convervative as you get.

    Ref my post *sigh* the post I referred to is in the Privacy General forum, and is titled Dark Days.

  8. #8
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    this articlle is (imo) whitewashing the whole thing, the bill which passed congress the day before yesterday calls for a "grande database" that will track every recordable thing that ever american does IE: library, Tolls, credit card, bank transactions, (not just large transactions) email web site visits basically everything the media reasearchers have come up with combined with every thing government and law enforcement has and attach your latest surveilance photo to it.

    they said it couldn't be done...
    Ladies and gentlemen, i give you "the beast"


    http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=236856
    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”

  9. #9
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    As an outside observer, I can't understand why news like this isn't causing more of an effect in the USA. The article states that this database could take several years to become reality, but one must also realize that within several years the debit card transaction will more than likely become the number one method of purchase. Right now you have to swipe your card and key in a personalized number. Undoubtedly this method will be improved upon so that the actual keying in of a number is made redundant.

    As technology evolves, the idea of a paperless (money transactions) society becomes more realistic. More and more nations are going towards a coin oriented monetary system. Here in Canada we have a $1 and $2 coin, with ramblings of a $5 coin. The USA has also hinted at discontinuing small paper bills in favour of coins. Eventually this will lead to a paperless trail.

    By tracking and recording the spending habits of all individuals, the gov't would have the ultimate database of what every consumer likes. How much would a company be willing to spend to get a listing of individuals who bought their product? Why waste money on flyers sent to 100,000 households, when you could send them to households you know won't just toss it in the garbage! The gov't would make a financial killing.
    I\'d rather die on my feet than live my life on my knees.

    (Emiliano Zapata, a Mexican revolutionary in the early 1900s)

  10. #10
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    Theirs a slight difference between "tracking your spending habits" and developing a physiological profile on ever citizen. That’s like calling an alligator a lizard.

    When you consider that these coins will no doubt be the ones they'll call 'amerios' you better start paying attention too. Or haven't you havn't heard about that!
    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”

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