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  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Dec 2001

    Arrow Bowling for Columbine


    I just watched the documentary Bowling for Columbine, and i taught i raised some intersting facts about the american culture.
    Everyone is aware of the violence in the states and usualy most people assimilate it with the issue of gun control....
    Actually there are as many guns in Canada as in the state ( per family ...) and the rate of crime is so much lower there so i'm wondering what is it abotu american culture that makes is so violent ?
    In the documentary they suggest the fear factor transported by all the news media (for demonstartion watch the 6 pm news ...QED), i'm not too sure that this alone can be significant alone.
    Let me have some of your input ?
    assembly.... digital dna ?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Aug 2002
    There are so many factors that play a part in this. I will just name one of them: family values. I live in a major Metropolitan area, and I see signs of decreased family values everyday. It doesn't have to be a major city or even in a city. It could be some suburban town or something. The thing is this, how can we expect our children to have morals when we don't take the time to instill them. It's a vicious neverending cycle where everyone comes out the loser. Any one of us could fall victim to the situation. Although, I do not fully disagree that a person's free will reigns even if they have been taught morals/values. I don't know, and I don't claim to have all of the answers, not by a long shot. It makes you wonder, definitely. All I can do is try and raise my children the best way I know how and pray that everything works out.


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  3. #3
    Senior Member roswell1329's Avatar
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    Jan 2002
    I've always noticed that Americans seem to have a tendency to either over-indulge or under-indulge in everything. We seem to have no concept of moderation, and I can see this best exemplified in younger people. Just look at a typical college campus. Many students who like to drink on the weekends make no effort to exercise control of their consumption. Indeed, many students go out on the weekends with the specific intention of getting "plowed, trashed, blitzed, sh1tfaced, etc.". Then, there are also a number of students who are so dead-set against drinking that they organize "alternative-weekend" programs, and produce literature about the dangers of alcohol. "Drinking responsibly" is a term that seems to be lost on undergrads.

    How about fast food? Americans have a consuming desire for fattening foods. When many Americans order their Big Mac meal deals, they feel the need to go all out and get the Extra Super Sized meal. And have you seen the size of some of the portions served at restaurant chains like Outback Steakhouse, Applebees, and Chilis? I can never finish those meals, and I always feel bad about leaving so much behind.

    I haven't seen Bowling for Columbine yet, but the idea is pretty familiar. Guns are another source of American excessiveness. I understand the right of every American to have a gun for protection, hunting, sport, etc. What I don't understand is the desire of some Americans to have several extremely high-powered assault rifles along with an assortment of handguns and other weapons, without reason. And many Americans have these weapons in the same house as small children! If you enjoy firearms as a collector, perhaps there should be a collectors license you get only after completing a firearm safety training course. If you need several weapons for hunting, perhaps you should have to apply for and pay for a license for each weapon with which you intend to hunt, in hopes of discouraging some of these mini-arsenals people have. It may seem to be harsh, or unfair to firearm enthusiasts, but it would be in the interest of safety for everyone. We might not even have to discourage the number of weapons you have. Can't we just insist that if you want to own a gun, you need to have the training to take proper care of the weapon. Show people that owning a weapon demands a certain level of responsibility and care. Then again, I would imagine that many of the firearm-related deaths in this country are probably caused by unlicensed weapons smuggled into the US and sold on the street. Maybe we'll never solve our obsessive desire for weapons.

    I'm looking forward to the film, at any rate.
    /* You are not expected to understand this. */

  4. #4
    The Iceman Cometh
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    I saw "Bowling for Columbine" when it first came out. Not exactly Michael Moore's best film, but it did bring up some interesing points. Many of the points, however, in my opinion, was taken out of context. The issue you raise about Canada, for instance. While I agree with t2k2 that there are many factors, including family values, which may affect this, I believe the real factor was simply geography. Many areas of Canada are not densely (sp?) populated, unlike in America. If people are more spread out, there are less chances for conflicts or for accidents, or for just random acts of violence. I don't remember the film all too well, and I don't remember all of his reasoning behind the violence, but, in my opinion, his reasoning was flawed and taken out of context...


  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Ok. I have very strong feelings about this topic, and you might not agree with me. That's fine, I welcome people who don't agree with me, it keeps us all free, and I will respect your opinions and listen to you, as long as you do the same with me.
    That being said, let's get to the rant. I was raised with guns. I was 4 years old, and got my first .22 long rifle. I was raised to believe that if you pointed a gun at something, it dies. No room for mistakes, and the guns, when not being used, were locked in a gun safe. One that I did not have the combination to until I was much older. Guns are not the issue in Columbine. Those kids would have gotten guns no matter what. It's all about family values. The reason crime is lower in places that have lighter gun control laws, is that everyone has guns. Criminals think twice before breaking into a house, (granny might be packin) its only the places that have strict gun control. Trust me, gun control only takes guns away from the honest citizens. Now, I'm not opposed to getting license's. Give me any test in the world for my guns, I'll be happy to take it. But don't take the guns away. That will do no good. I mean, isn't Pot, and cocaine illegal, I could come back in 20 minutes with the stuff. . . BTW, I live in Los Angeles, and work at a school, and I agree, that family values will prevent most of the crap that goes on in this world.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    i couldn't agree more with you techtech.

    columbine isn’t about guns at all, i mean if they didn't have guns they would have gone threw with plan 2 and blown up the school. then who would we blame the makers of charcoal, or the sellers of fertilizer? their parents wouldn't have noticed a bomb factory in the living room anyway.

    if the free will of these two creeps was evil by nature all the more reason why parental discipline or at least observation would have protected other people.
    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    Dec 2001
    true, the kidds would have gotten the kidds one way or another... I still wonder about the why of the situtation, i mean how can 2 kidds come to want to kill and actually execute this kind of madness? the root of that have to be much deeper than gun control. THe issue of gun control is quite difficult and (being not american) i don't really care if my neighbors owns one, but if his kidds shoots at any of my people he'll find me one his way with a bigger one ... that said, the roots of violence cannot just be traced to the lost of family values because these things are diseapearing all over the develloped world... nuclear family exist all over and unemployement, misery, high population density exists all over so what caould it be really ?
    I think that the violence described in the daily news contributes to the general fear that exist in the US. If the news is bloody it'll make the 6o'clock otherwise ... for example when was the last time you watched the news and that there was no story about some crime not that far from YOUR home ... or how about the evolution of the typical genral suspect ?
    assembly.... digital dna ?

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    One thing is thus. Like Roswell said American's overkill or underkill. The reason such things are so covered in the US is because: 1: it's the US, 2: US Media is repulisve/bloodthristy, 3: this issues are was less common in the US than anywhere else. You never hear anything about it in other countrys because they are so frequent and the conflicts all merge into one murderous stupor. Another point about the media: They spend 15 min of their time talking about some music artist (AOL, timewarner) and then about some obscure useless talent some backwater hobo has. Even while we have missle crisis, Venezuela's major issues, imposing war, and a million other things more important than Joe Idiot.
    Another thing is US youth are very high strung. I should know, I'm one of them. Overconfidence and lack of two things plague them. Respect/reverence, and value. Value is down the drain because when something is broke get new ones. Regardless of product or situation. Divorces ring a bell....this is also a common thing in how friends are treated. And we are faced with hearing about death from such a young age that it becomes trivial and distant.
    Reverence is the other huge thing. In a system were nothing is sacred and all is fair in love and war produces thoughts that the world is what I make of it...literally. We are taught that we can come from the gutter and become kings....and with a generation that thinks and questions more and more frequently, things become open to interpretation.
    \"Greatness only comes at great risk.\" ~ Personal/Generic

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    they are a lot of good points in all of your responses particularily family values and population desnity, also i think guns should require a liscense, they have legitimate uses and should be legal.

    roswell talks about guns being smuggled in illegally, tho that may be a problem, a larger problem is so many people dont lock up their guns because they want to use them if some one breaks in so they leave them about loaded no less, its not only dangerous but guns left like that are one of the most widley gathered things in burglaries, even more than jewelery. not to mention guns are often turned on the owner by the "uninvited guest" if they are in a confrontation

    anyways thats what i gots to say
    what is love but contempt for hate?

  10. #10
    Ok here goes nothing:

    In america, we have this thing called "Jealousy" i dont know if there are any other countries that have this but we sure do. Now jealousy and hate are not the same thing, however they do fall into the same consequential boundary. My idea is that if you hate someone verbally or even physically, they become not only hateful, but jealous. Jealous because they want to be the person that is allowed to do the hating because they haves so many of their peers (does not mean in school only) to back them up. While sitatuations like these arise, you must stop and wonder why? Well, i dont know if you have never noticed, but i darn sure have. Our system not only allows for more discrimation or even reverse discrimation than possibly large numbers of countries around the world. We have taken our hate to a new extreme. Our hate is now masked by the ideals of the constitution etc. Now in this constitution, all men are created equal.
    sub point [a]
    all men are created equal keyword - men - allows for discrimation already.

    now this may have been revised, which does not invalidate my point. My point being that we have ideals such as this running our country. We have made it so bad that people actually question things such as "are women (i say womyn) drafted to the military? " stuff like that.. the answer being yes but the educational factor is very low.

    sub point [b]

    reverse discrimination. Our country has basically formed the basis of a revolting time bomb of the people. After 9-11, we made almost every person in america have a different feeling towards people that were muslim or even dare i say of middle eastern decent. Now this is totally wrong, and then bush gets on tv and says this. Well this turns into an aftermath of reverse discrimation. We talk about muslims auto-matically as - good people except for a few. Well, why should we even need to do that? its just sad, really.....

    Now let me tie this into the columbine situation, if i will.


    Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were raised around peers that were either popular, smart, good looking, athletic, artistic, etc etc etc.

    Now these people have their own groups. Their own little *clicks* as you all know.

    Well, our society basically forces them to have a mental disorder in such a way that they feel it necessary to be violent. They had so many problems from fellow americans and human (i say humyn) beings in general, that they hated everyone in a particular sect. I see High Schools as their own countries. Columbine as well as the USoA fight wars with other people. Columbines being sports or academics, the US being wars and trade. Well, the same sort of sitatuion goes down their, in those high schools, as per countries. Except for one important factor: maturity. These kids have not expericenced ways to cope with people whom were different, well has the Bush Administration done this by publicly announcing that they were "muslims" I mean, who cares if they are muslims, who cares if they are bringing on a "Jihad" Its just not even matter of factual. These kids had their own beliefs and their own ways of life, and were discriminated by others throughout their lives because of the system that was already in place when they were born, and the cycle continues.

    Hope you got something out of that, it took a bit of typing.. but thats just my opinion.

    edit >> typos.

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