Re:Have Your Say On Hackers

[Midridth]

I find that the best education and spreading of information on this subject comes from mouth to ear in the school or work place. I have educated many people on this subject because they question my terminology. Also on other web boards that you may be a member of, just talking with random people on mIRC, etcetera.

The use of media (in all forms: radio, TV, billboards, planes flying with banners trailing behind them, etc ) will be difficult because we do not have easy access to these things. The best way is threw web sites such as AO and threw the methods that I have just mentioned.

Also we do NOT want to get into spam and email/letter chains. This is just an annoyance that many of us fight on a day to day basis. We are all "neocitizens" (I tend to dislike that word, but it works well in this context) and therefore we general dispise the use of spam and the forwarding of large emails (chains). So We should avoid this at all costs.

-Midridth

[SpydaByte]

Exactly. I know a lot of white hat, most gray hat, and actually some black hats who have downed their work while I "interact" with them. And don't get me wrong, a black hat is someone who does the same thing but not totally legally (breaking into a system, not touching anything and sends how they got in and how 2 fix it to the sys admin). A gray hat, is someone that does that for free but with permission of the admin, and a white hat, i believe, is someone for the Gov or for that sys admin that does it and blocks others from doing it. I BELIEVE that is it, but dont quote me please, because as i have said.... no IMPLIED.... before, some words mean slightly different things to different people. Just like the label "newbie" is supposivly a bad thing. It's not, actually i believe noobs have the best potential, but they also have the worst, which ever way the people guiding them (mentors) decide to turn them. I probably would be a black hat now if 1 of my mentors didn't explain it to me this way:

If you broke into my house to blow out a candle, that has the POTENTIAL to burn down my house, your action would be against the law BECAUSE for the little fact that you are breaking into my house.

These words changed me forever, b/c i reliezd it was true. Even though your intentions are good, you should only do the black hack if: you know the admin, and they know you and your attentions. just those 2 facts make you a gray hat. 2 little facts from being bad-good. Its not that hard, just 2 get your name out. But off my life, we do need 2 change the media, slowly but if you slowly change it you have more time to perfect the ones that you change, a simple email chain would do, but with more people the faster are better we can do. Thats what forum's are for! I appreciate your feedback! Thanks for your input and understanding. I totally forgot about the "hat" terms. Thanks for helping me explain myself better.
-Spyda

[AciDriveHB]

Yeah for sure Spyda, I think this is a perfect topic to have brought up. In a time of a few hours, how many different people have responded with how many views and things to add.

On another slightly different subject though, does anyone know how to get a hold of, or where to get a hold of, an actual list of the full list of "hacker ethic's"? After talking about all the black and white, good and bad, I'm interested in if these codes exsist and what they actually say.

I think I need to learn more too to help educate others, I want to make sure I have all the facts and know more than what I do before I try to explain it to others.

[SpydaByte]

We are all "neocitizens" (I tend to dislike that word, but it works well in this context) and therefore we general dispise the use of spam and the forwarding of large emails (chains). So We should avoid this at all costs.

this is somewhat true, but also a little bit false, for kids my age, email chains are the new fad (and have been for the last 2-3 years) so for my age group, this would be good, but it kind of discourages some people, as in 25-40? i dont know b/c im not in this group yet. but all kinds of media are the way to go, we need 2 start a source, with nothing holding it back, AO can't be in this b/c i dont trust it all the way, almost 50% or more of its files hosted have trojans on them, but this is a good way for the "Neocitizens" (i dont like it either, but it DOES fit well) to communicate on. I like the plane idea.... I could do that at myrtle beach but i think most people would take it as a joke. LMAO. anyways, yea its a good topic and we should seriously think about that. Maybe a website would do :-). I g2g again. L8r
-Spyda

[Midridth]

From the sound of it I'm in the same age group as you are, I'm 15 and a freshmen in highschool.

The idea of the website is an interesting idea. A web site totaly devoted to educating the masses on cyber culture? I know of pages that have sections on this topic and that people have written papers, but I think that a source of this type ran by the people who live and breathe this culture would be awsome. A serious idea that we should float around.

For not trusting AO....I'm not really sure what to say. True essentialy all of the information on AO could be used in a malicious manner but does that mean that they are not to be trusted? For example a car can kill you, but does that mean that we don't use them? Just a thought.

What can we do for now? Well deffinatly keep on talking about this subject until it dies, "free speach and all that" ((c) "The Last Castle") and continue to educate our peers in our schools and work places. Maybe put something in the school newspaper? My school has the FirstClass program for everyone and it provides multiple forums for people to post anouncments and a discussion place. If you have something like this, make a post on it?

While this is about as much as we can, or maybe want, to do at the moment until we either consider this subject more, we should also consider if we think it's worth pooring a lot of effort into. When I say this I refer to the possability that we could focus our efforts on other such topics that mean more. True it is HIGHLY annoying when someone uses the hacker vs cracker terminology incorrectly, but does it really matter that much? Maybe people will percieve you differantly, but that happens all the time on and off the web. Other matters that we might want to put any effort into changing, if we were to, could be open source, freedom of speach online, etcetera.

Just some thoughts.

-Midridth

[SpydaByte]

Im AROUND that age. Anyways, yes your right, we should really get that idea to float around, if not happen. I got a bunch of tools at my disposal to make such a thing, never a problem, but could we get enough people to make it reality? Surely i would not trust 1 person and their private homepage.
Ok, as for NOT trusting AO, i didn't mean it that way, but rather i meant it as that the people that post the files, i would think that some of them, if not a lot, are using this info and the AO site to get new targets (hench my research of downloading .1%-1% of the files in each folder and checking them for virii / trojans hidden) but i DO trust this site, and a lot of the people on them. My origonal comment was, in fact, just a thought.

What can we do for now? Well deffinatly keep on talking about this subject until it dies, "free speach and all that" ((c) "The Last Castle") and continue to educate our peers in our schools and work places.

Here here.

I also use FC with a bunch of different servers, I could get out the word of what we are trying to do to about 10 different countries in about 5 mins. Yes tech today.

you are right, we should just let this topic float for now, shouldn't really consider it more yet though. People will think of us differently, but one of my thoughts is that it could open up all the more oppertunities to us, having a good label in the "hacking" community (some times refered to as the "underground", if that label could help you to get a job? hrmmm.... that would be great! B/c these labels are for real, hard to pick out, but are the real thing. But your right though, it wouldn't really matter what you are on the web b/c you can be anything you want, for all you know i could be a pregnet austrailian mother routed through an aol connection in NY NY, and i could change so much info to make Bill Gates believe it. Just a thought ;-). Its the end of my day, so i have to move to a different building, but i will keep posting, developing and spreading the word of this topic :-). I encourage everyone to do the same.
Yes i believe in the right to free software, speech, etc....
It's the new fad. LOL.
-Spyda

[SpydaByte]

Would anyone like to make a whole community for a website? This is sort of one, but spread the word about a plassable one, and watch to see the reactions. :-) This could be good and a great possibility. If you have any input please post it! Thanks. Also if you have any input on what ARE hackers, (to you) please post them. If you have any experiance with the media and issues that the media wake out of the world just to get more readers? LOL. Its definately true. Thanks

[silentstalker]

I just have to say, that if you have anything to say to Tedob1 about maybe not ignoring you, a private message would be best. Now you're on the verge of getting banned. I guess some lessons are meant to be learned the hard way.


Regards,
Silentstalker

[SpydaByte]

Ok, For my first post (i think these posts deserve to be seperated b/c of totally different topics)
this is it:

I am very sorry AciDriveHB, i did not see one of your posts b/c i wrote mine at the same time:
AciDriveHB writes:

On another slightly different subject though, does anyone know how to get a hold of, or where to get a hold of, an actual list of the full list of "hacker ethic's"? After talking about all the black and white, good and bad, I'm interested in if these codes exsist and what they actually say.

I think I need to learn more too to help educate others, I want to make sure I have all the facts and know more than what I do before I try to explain it to others.

There is a jargon file, which is located here , and is one of the greatest sources for this kind of info. (This is not the origonal post of this file, i dont know where the origonal is....) I really appreciate the fact that you are going to try to learn more before saying things that you are not totally sure about. This is a very good way of approaching things and I extremely thank you for trying. not many people do. As for "Codes" there is no real "codes" that anyone should follow. MIT is a very realiable source even though i have not used their site in awhile. They are very reliable for people to get strait quotes from (being one of the main uni's that pro "hackers" are from). There are some good ones out there, but also some very biased ones (aka the media). Thanks, and im sorry for missing this post in the first place!
-Spyda

[^Mobius^]

I think the Jargon Dictionary summed up the difference quite nicely. ::Grins:: The difference is clear...(clearsil) and I think that Spyda's right, the Media has blurred the difference to society so much so that most hacker's can't identify themselves without persecution.