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Thread: USA - Iraq (part 7387c)

  1. #11
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    I don't think we should necessarily go to war with Iraq. The majority of people in that country have nothing to do with this. They live in fear everyday because of Saddam. If nothing else, taking Saddam out of power will certainly help the quality of life in Iraq. Democracy is a wonderful thing.
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  2. #12
    AO Decepticon CXGJarrod's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by shtychkn
    If nothing else, taking Saddam out of power will certainly help the quality of life in Iraq. Democracy is a wonderful thing.
    I dont know if taking Saddam out of power will really help the situation in Iraq. Numerous CIA officials said that Saddam's sons will take over power in the Government if he dies or is killed. They also have stated that his sons are MUCH more violent then he is....

    As far as the US intellegence reports about Iraq and the weapons inspectors (From the CNN article:

    I dont know if I believe them. The US government has lied before about these kinds of things to prove their case or to get the people of the USA to agree with them.

    Also, we are so pissed off that the al Qaeda terrorists bombed the USA, but they make no mention that the USA gave them guns and trained them years ago to fight dictatorships. Its such a double standard.
    N00b> STFU i r teh 1337 (english: You must be mistaken, good sir or madam. I believe myself to be quite a good player. On an unrelated matter, I also apparently enjoy math.)

  3. #13
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    i hate the idea of war... be it against iraq or anyone else... i dont think we need to kill poeple for any reason that has been presented before the U.N. . I think it is ridiculus that anyone can be all for death and systematic use of OUR weapons because they used they're god givin right to build some to match ours...

    i mustof fell asleep or something but wasen't the war on terror against al quida? how did it shift from al quida to Iraq? did anyone relize this? im concerned for thewell being of the earth afterwe kill more poeple to lower gas prices... because 1.50 is too expensive in the U.S. when they pay 4 dollars and up in europe... just a thought...
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  4. #14
    Kwiep
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    Originally posted here by Tedob1
    Powell lays out U.S. case:

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/spr....un/index.html

    i believe him! I believe everything he says here.

    Ive had my doubts up until now. not about saddam but about going to war without UN approval to stop him. saddam is a bad man with or without a war but now i think the line is drawn. he will be stopped.

    i pray it will be fast and complete and the innocent will be spared but there's no doubt in my mind now. were marching.
    I agree with Sadaam being a madman and a being a very dangerous man with his diplomatic talks. Bush is onthe other hand even more dangerous, because he can be the same with diplomatic talk, but has a much more threatening (proven!) nuclear arsenal. I read this kind of stories about 10 times now and like people in this thread said already, were's the evidence ? Because of some satalite pictures indicating possible terrorist training locations they also bombed half Afghanistan to. The only prove I saw of that was the talks they had... saying they "can't tell everything"... They really have to do better. I prefer only looking at what people do instead of only looking at what they say. I don't say America is all bad, but is this a reason to talk any country, wheter it is Iraq or any other country. If I had satalite pictures of the US for example I could also point at some place were you could have a terrorist trainings camp. In the US there are better facilities for it to.

    Also, we are so pissed off that the al Qaeda terrorists bombed the USA, but they make no mention that the USA gave them guns and trained them years ago to fight dictatorships. Its such a double standard.
    and

    i hate the idea of war... be it against iraq or anyone else... i dont think we need to kill poeple for any reason that has been presented before the U.N. . I think it is ridiculus that anyone can be all for death and systematic use of OUR weapons because they used they're god givin right to build some to match ours...

    i mustof fell asleep or something but wasen't the war on terror against al quida? how did it shift from al quida to Iraq? did anyone relize this? im concerned for thewell being of the earth afterwe kill more poeple to lower gas prices... because 1.50 is too expensive in the U.S. when they pay 4 dollars and up in europe... just a thought...
    Mass distruction weapons in the hands of a madman isn't a good thing, but who gave them the building plans and the ideas ? Who gave them weapons ? Why isn't a country not directly allied to the US allowed to have nukes (for example north Korea, I can understand in a case like Sadaam) ?

    I also still didn't see any indication that al qa'ida is in iraq. Btw... I didn't even see any real proof of al qa'ida being responsible for the attack to the WTC. People might be having a party, but does that mean the whole coutry has a party ? Does that mean all poor farmers even care about that WTC. Wich in fact is only making them poorer because of the alliances it makes between rich countries. National banks of those rich countries still earn money from poor countries depts and the ... I don't know how it's called, but it's the extra money the bank you lend money from can ask from you, just for lending the money ... Those depts and things are big percentages of the lands total money production, so in this way they never get it payed back.

    How reasonable is it of the USA to start a war without any permission or agreement on the UN part ... What worth does an instantion like UN have f a superpower like USA can just step asside for a minute and attack some countrys and then come back again... Sort of laughing at that UN "Hah look at you silly boys 'n galls I can do it all by myself" Time for the netherlands and every other slef respecting country to leave that UN and start something else, or just kick out the US... altough USA might be the biggest sponsor.

    I had some more things, but I forgot them in the meanwhile :/ I'll ad them later when I remember again...

    edit:

    Here they are, the things I forgot about:

    In the article they talk about the intentional distraction from Iraq citizens of the inspections. Why is that a reason to think they hide something ? The inspectors can just come about everywere and those citizens can't stop them. If they use weapons and force to really keep them away from specific place, you could start to think that. Just keep going on with those inspections.

    from a french article: http://www.liberation.fr.page.php?Article=85903
    I'm not real good in french, but I use two little pieces translated in english

    the FBI and the CIA estimated that the Bush administration "exaggerated" on a possible relation between Saddam and the terrorist network of Bin Laden
    exaggerated, "possible" ?

    eleven members out of fifteen, whose France, Russia and China, decided for the continuation of the inspections
    the UN doesn't agree, there's proof of that

    Thanks for all replies so far

    Neel

    p.s.
    I'm not an america hater, altough maybe it sometimes looks like. I just want to discuss the points I have and make thing clear to anyone who's interested still... Opinions from both sites and I respect them all.

  5. #15
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    I also resent the fact that it seems that when GWB says "jump" our Prime Minister say "how high?" every time. I think that our PM is more interested sucking up to the US than listening to the Australian public.
    You think you've got problems in Australia? I like in the UK and *our* prime minister probably shares his bed (& wife) with GWB

    He went over there the other day for a council of war with GWB, and has now committed approx. 25% of the British army to an invasion of Iraq

  6. #16
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    Thumbs down

    First of all I am a human being and second of all I live in the United States-The greatest country on earth! having said that I am totally against the U.S. taking any miltary action on Iraq (at this time) We were promised PROOF of weapons of mass destruction(we harbor the largest arsenal) and were given speeches about patriotism when the proof failed to materialize. The greatest threat to the peace of the world id the U.S. and we are engaging in the terrorism we refute.
    I am NOT a pacifist and let anyone that harms us pay the cost 100 times over but Iraq causes nobody any loss of sleep.
    It is my hope that Saddam steps down in for the love of his people and country and I hope that if this were to happen the people of Iraq were given the chance to form their own form of goverment without meddlesome self-interest groups trying to plunder the nation.
    The people of the world don't want war, the politicians do!
    the only way to fix it is to flush it all away-tool

  7. #17
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    neel you may have read 10 other articles and maybe even the cover page speaking of powells UN address today. your saying wheres the proof... you apparently didn't read what powell had to say today and if you did you have chosen to ignore it.
    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”

  8. #18
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    CXGJarrod: I agree with what you are saying, but we may never even get him. Saddam actually has two body doubles that travel and speak for him. He also is beyond wealthy, he could PERSONALLY fund much of his shenanigans and not even use the country's money if need be. There are many things that the news doesn't tell you about. What we see on CNN and read in the paper is almost sensationalism. There are a lot of thing that are just left out of the story. Some things are just pure fabrication.
    I would personally love it if we could all just play nice, but unfourtunately there are plenty of ambitious people with no impulse control that are willing to lead those who need it.
    --
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  9. #19
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    I dont know if taking Saddam out of power will really help the situation in Iraq. Numerous CIA officials said that Saddam's sons will take over power in the Government if he dies or is killed. They also have stated that his sons are MUCH more violent then he is....
    Do you think it is possible that the US government and the rest of the world is keeping saddam in power for a reason? Lets look at a scenario, Saddam gets assainated some day by a black op for X organization. Now all his supporters think its time to get even or one of his sons take over, Iraq breaks out in anarchy and attacks Isreal and then nukes start and turkey join in cause they have a treaty with isreal and so starts WW3. Now what if the intelligence agencys kept him in power because they have run multiple sims and havefound out life will be easier and less "forceful" with him alive. These are just my thoughts and something to think about the next time any of you start jumping to opinions.
    As far as the war is concerned I think we should wait for the UN to make its decision.

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  10. #20
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    Oh well, this isn't going to be popular but winning friends and influencing people has never been a strong point of mine and sorry this is fairly long;

    I stayed up and watched the satellite feed of Powell's address to the UN, it was compelling as it was frightening.

    Diplomacy has failed, Saddam has defied every UN mandate ever put to him and will continue to do so - if no action is taken the UN might as well fold up and go home - it would have become a toothless tiger.

    Firstly, Powell is correct - it is not the position of the world to prove Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, that was done in 1998. It is now for Iraq to prove that they do not, to give clear and concise evidence of the destruction of those weapons they were found to have in 1998, so far this has not been done. This is clearly set out in UN Resolution 1441.

    Where are these chemicals and biological agents ?, how were they destroyed ?, where were they destroyed ?, you don't simply lose these things !! You lose you car keys, your wallet - you dont lose weapons of mass destruction.

    Powell reinforced to me that the inspection process is not going to work, ever. This is not the fault of the inspectors, but how can you find something that is constantly moved and hidden outside your reach ... the game of 'cat and mouse' is very much alive and well, in Iraq. As it was stated these inspectors are scientists - not detectives - they will not find anything unless Saddam makes a mistake - this is highly unlikely.

    Tedob1 is correct - people will chose to ignore the evidence for their own personal reasons - but let them accept the consquences should the situation continue and Saddam marches on to his ultimate goal of dominating the Middle East. Why else build weapons that can reach all your neighbours - this is not for defence but to compel your neighbours to comply or suffer the consquences. Ultimate power, ultimately corrupts, I believe this. Saddam is accountable to no-one, so he believes. At least the President of the US and other democratic countries can be scrutinised in the media, by parliament, congress etc.. etc.., if they screws up they pay the consequence - they becomes an ex-presidents ... who scrutinses Saddam if we dont ?

    I feel for the people of Iraq who are being placed in a very dangerous position by a very dangerous leader. They are caught in the middle of a situation created by their 'oh-so' democratically elected leader.

    Yes, the US and other civilised countries do have nasty weapons, but when was the last time they tested them on their own people or used/threatened to use them against a neighbouring country, pre-emptively ? More to the point, when are they likely ever to do this - without accountablilty before the world council ? Can the same be said for Iraq under its current leadership ? Iran, the Kurds ... this is history on the record for all to read.

    I know my views are not going to be popular, I dont want war, no-one WANTS war but there comes a time in ones life when you have to take a stand against the school yard bully or forever be subservient to him.

    The Iraqi leadership is treating the rest of the world with contempt at the expense of their own people and if we want a repeat of 1939-1945 then lets just bury our heads in the sand and hope it goes away like they did back then or keep looking at the world through rose coloured glasses. Back before 1939, the world sat back and watched small evil turn into large evil before their eyes. Tyrannical dictators are nothing new, and undoubtably there will be others - but we are now in a position to do something about it.

    I am prepared to take the criticisms for my views - but what would the world be like today if a certain German leader had been taken out in a localised squirmish prior to 1939 - prior to emassing enough power/weapons/allies to start a global conflict ?

    Saddam is here and he is now - history has shown what this man is capable of - his actions give a clear indication of what his goals are. He has set himself up in such a way that it is impossible for him to be toppled by internal opposition. His regime can not be trusted. Ethnic cleansing and genocide are not out of the rule book for this regime.

    Under a humane/stable leadership I can not see why Iraq couldn't be one of the weathiest nations in the world both financially and in its benefits for its people.

    The US & others may not be totally innocent in their previously dealings with Iraq and Afghanistan et al, but we have the advantage of judging and condemning with the benefit of being armchair critics long after the events. Who has ever been completely innocent for everything in their lives, mistakes are made - some bigger than others - it is how you correct the mistakes that matter in the end.

    If the leaders of the day had a crystal ball - do you think they would have made the same decisions - I think not. These things can not be changed, but the future can.

    Unfortunately, unless by some miracle to stop it, I feel war in Iraq is now inevitable - my thoughts and prayers go out to the men and women chosen to undertake this task along with the innocent people in Iraq, whom I truly believe have no real idea of what is going on - and unless Saddam is toppled, probably never will.

    Should war come, I hope the regime in Iraq is toppled quickly and the people of Iraq are given back a country that is stable, fruitful and prosperous for them all - free of fear and tyranny.

    Some will say this is 'War for Oil' or 'Payback for Daddy' - maybe so, maybe not - but I want to believe it is for peace and stability for the Iraqi people and the region in which they live, maybe I am the one with the rose coloured glasses on.

    To the diehard anti-war advocates, I part with this - given the choice, would you live in Iraq under its current regime ? And if not, why not ?

    One reason that springs immediately to mind is that you would not be able to read this, let alone reply to it.

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