USA - Iraq (part 7387c)

[Xenia]

man, you watch a lot of movies, this is war not a 007 movie
and by the way, american soldiers are everywhere, I don't think you need technology to know whats goin' on!!

[neel]

tedob1
maybe I didn't see it... I didn't ignore anything I read as far as I'm concerned with myself , but were's that proof then ? I really don't see any proof, only nice words. Nice words I also saw in an interview with Sadaam. Those nice words I think are not worth the same as things that really happen...
Maybe I'm wrong.

[Mark Smith]

hello,

I am seeing allot of well thought out .... ... thoughts in the above post but I had to resond to a few things said
Soggy Bottom - "Why are the US trying so hard to disarm Iraq, when it hasnt yet been proven that they possess weapons of mass destruction? Especially when Korea, Pakistan, India and not to mention the US possess these destructive weapons themselves... Seems somewhat hypocritical."
I have heard this many times -why does the US think that we have the right to disarm sadam when we ourselfs have more "wepons of mass destruction" well.... maybe it has something to do with the fact that we don't use chemical wepons on our own people to test them- maybe it is cause if someone quits a gov. job and desides to move to cannada we don't have secret police rape his neice on video send it to him in canadda and tell him more things will happen to his family if he doesn't come back to his gov. job. -IRAQ has done both of these and many other EVIL things. -USA is not perfect but I think that anyone in their right mind would rather live under law of USA than IRAQ , that is why we can have nukes and he can't.

S0NIC - "fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity. it just doesnt seem right."
this is funny joke but stupid argument, when hitler was killing the jews in wwii they didn't fight back at all, i don't think that it helped anything. any time in history you see a dictator bent on his own power, there has never been a peacefull solution. if you think this through with out cute saying then it makes no sense

Shrekkie - "There are indeed lots of countries with potential problems, such as India who can nuke tests without being bothered, they don't go there ??!!!" India is a democratic gov. and is allot more .... under the thum of the USA than Iraq.

Micky - "I think the American has enough power to get rid of them all but they only act on their own interests not on the interests of innocent people suffering around the world because of bad leaders and lack of democracy."
I liked your post very much and i think i agree with allmost all of it but honestly what country does not act in its own intrests - USA helps more country out then anyone else in the entire world combined, and no one sure as hell helps out the USA - I live in the USA and i get pissed all the time how much tax dollars go to helping other countrys out it should help US out it is our gov. I live in tex and and we have TONS of mexicans pooring over our boarder all the time for our help , the one thing that really makes me upset is so many people have a sense of entitlement to USA help.

i could probably go on for a long time about all this and have already gone on too long
i seriously mean NO offense to anyone i quoted i do respect all these opinions but just feel i had to put my ..... allot more than $00.02 in
thanks,
mark feel freee to laugh at me for any sp mistakes

[Shrekkie]

Hey Mark,

I couldn't resist to answer your post. Everyone is saying here countries with democratic govs or intentions are no possible harm or treath ( yet ).
I just want your reactions then on the biggest country in the world, not mentioned here, and by my means not democratic at all, and do have nukes. ==> Russia.

Well, there is a rumour here in Belgium that there would be stashed some USA nukes here on a military base, although not proven.

Well, this could be a little off-topic, sorry for that, but lets discuss all possible countries then.

Greetz,

[Mark Smith]

Shrekkie,
this "Well, there is a rumour here in Belgium that there would be stashed some USA nukes here on a military base, although not proven. " I dont' know but like i was saying in my first post, i dont' think anyone else does either not really the gov.s would never let us know what is really going on not completely as far as -Russia- goes, they have a -messed up sorta gov. in ways reminds me of mexico (run by mob) usa and russia get allong very well -russia is on UN councle - allthough i am not sure about permanant members like the usa, they are there. United States does space program with Russia, we suport them in allot of ways. they are like many other contries "under control" (this is where i bring subject back to topic)
allthough Russia - and - United States are i think the most responsible for most of the problems that are going on in 3rd world countries. 3rd world countries are basicly 200 to 500 years behind main stream countries. they were basicly of no consern with big countries like United States-Russia-Japan-United Kingdom, and all these types. but sometime i am not very inlitened here but after wwii, probly haveing to do with the cold war, russia and united states started trying to make friends with all these little 3rd world countries for many differant reasons, oil -military stratigic locations- general suport. so usa goes around -franchizeing democracy- for people that don't understand it, didn't fight for it, and may not want it. we train these militaries for them which then go around and do ethnic cleansing and general evil agression to those around them. (they are 200-500 years behind us culturaly and now have vastly superior military to all around them obviosly this will happen) so then we train the other guys to fight them cause our once friends our not anymore- meanwhile Russia is giveing every buddy AK47 rifles and whatever the hell else they can come up with -old military- for all kinds of favors, so this why we the BIG problems in africa and middle east that we do,
in my not as humble as it probably should be opinion.

worse speller in the world,
Mark Smith

hello,
I know i just posted but looking over Xenia's posts i had to say something -


"I know the Americans people has no role in this (although I had the idea that they hated us after 11th september), and I also know that they are against the war but as I said before its the |US gov| who does create all problems."
you don't know that the american people are against the war, you see the news and they show you whatever will keep you watching, the anti-war ralies and all that, just cause something is on the news doesn't mean it is the opinion of -the american people. i don't REALLY know whether we should go to war or not and i think very few people do, but i am leaning towards it. most every one i know wants war with sadam allso.

"and about Saddam, we arabs has nothing against him or with him, I believe that he could not be of any harm to us, Hitler? I don't think Saddam is trying to rule the world!"
the problem with hitler wasn't as much that he wanted to rule the world (as the song says "every body wants to rule the world") the problem with hitler is he killed people systematicly with the intent of genocyde (i know i spelled wrong leme alone) sadam does VERY evil things , i can tell you about some on request, he models his gov. after both Hitler and Stallin

"and lets say he wants to harm |ANY| country.. Why not wait till his first move, How can we be so sure that he's trying to do anything.. "
his first move could kill 1,000,000 people i don't think i wanna be one of them and neither does anyone else.

"The UN Inspection was a smart move, but war??? he didn't even do anything yet, the UN didn't find any nuclear weapons, I think this is quiet satisfactory now, even the small countries has a full nuclear weapons program, he can't be a harm to anybody. "
this is such an unthought thing to say i dont' even think it is worth breaking down

i hate to be mean but really ... think a little bit before you put up posts like this ... just a little

mark

[Uhu]

Hello again,

after reading all your posts and reflecting your arguments I'm now quite doubtful wether my viewpoint mentioned in my first post was too one-dimensional (Is this correct english?). Under some circumstances it may be not very helpful just to sit down and to show posters with the peace-sign.

On the other hand, conventional war with its tanks and bombers can't be a satisfying solution. In most cases they don't hit the target, but destroy the surrounding. I our language we have a new word-construction for this: "Kollateral-Schaden" - I could barf, when I hear it. It sounds quite harmless but the meaning is deadly for the people living in the surrounding of the target. I think Saddam is a faintheart. He hopes that we wouldn't attack him as long he hides behind his own people. They are his hostages and his shield.

I think - it's just an idea! - that some kind of a special commando could try to cath him in a trap. Just as about 20 years ago in Mogadishu a commando freed the hostages of some airplanes hijacked by terrorists. Again: It's just an idea!

One thing i've been missing in the whole thread until now: the role of the industry. Ok. It has been said that they may be interested in the natural resources of Iraq. But where do the weapons Saddam has come from? Where come the weapons from that would be used to take Saddam his weapons away. Who would earn billions of euros, when a war took place? As longer the war lasts, as more money would be earned.

I hate it!

I'm tired! I'll go to bed!

Till tomorrow!


Good night!

[shtychkn]

Uhu, we have the same phrase here in America it's called "collateral damage" (it's also a bad Schwarzenegger movie).

It's hard to tell what Bush's motives are in this war.
-get the oil and further line his own pockets
-drop the bombs and watch the stock market rally (improving his own holdings in the process)
-kill the man who tried to kill his father
-promote world peace

I'm guessing that the latter has the least to do with his motives.

[sirrahj]

Greetings all-

This - this is what it is about, people discussing the issues. Agruments for and against. This is what we are not truly seeing from the media, albeit we do see polls, demonstrations and some commentary, but by and far, from the mass media we are not really seeing much but fluff. What is almost funny (almost) is that Iraq was an ally in the past, during skirmishes with Iran.

What hurts right now however, is how various groups, in and out of the US, believe that pretty much all Americans want to go to war with Iraq. I know for a fact that is not true where I am at. A good portion of my family is, or has been associated with the military in active service and most of us have been in combat. All of us:

1) do not agree with the stated motivation from the commander-in-chief -- is it really to topple
SADDAM Husayn (sp per CIA worldbook)? Or to:
A) stimulate world economies
B) gain a better control on oil output
C) do what his Father did not
2) believe that our allies should be considered more in this process
3) our armed service personnel would be fighting for a cause outside of ensuring democracy and safety for others (hmmm... this point could be argued back and forth - would need more evidence than statements from the media and even our politicians)
4) question why this is taking priority over the "War on Terrorism"

Ok - So what would happen if the US/UK/AUS and the other countries pulled back? What if we all said, "Fine we're done. Let's see what happens." What if to, the US pulled out of S.Korea and let both of those countries handle their own business? Would both of these situations play out or explode? Are the US and allying nations "damned if we do or don't?"

It should be noted that I am all for defending ourselves and allies if we/they need to; this near inevitable action however, is much harder to justify... and it already looks like Vietnam II. There has also been news reported about the US looking to enact the draft again.

Here is one area I have been conducting research from:

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications...ook/index.html

Thoughts?

[owls]

I am agreed with President Bush to bring down Iraq with any resources available to us. It is easy to say here at homeland that war is bad but people just think if Hitler wouldn't be dead, can you just imagine the world today? Saddam Hussain is known for using all kind of tortures to his people. Women's are not allowed to go out without any veil. People are not allowed to vote with their own opinion. I mean it is just total mess over there and I know it is nobody's business to teach others how to live? But to save the mankind from maniacs like Saddam ( who uses chemical weapons on his own citizens just for the test not to mention) I think this war is important.

And I think we will save more lives with military action than political solution. And I don't think that he is fool or stupid at all. Yes he was acting little weard, like putting on the binoculars without taking the caps off. But now he is very serious and he knows what he is talking. I beleive him and I think lot of people here in US beleive him too.

No offence for those who don't like Bush but I think everyone has a right to say what he/she feels like. Afterall we are not in Iraq where someone is telling us what to do or not.

[Dr Toker]

Sadaam is an evil man. He has killed thousands of his own people with weapons of Mass destruction in the early 80's. Leaving Men women and children dead in the streets. He should have been killed then. But we let him slide. He is a dictator. He controls the people with an Iron fist.

HOWEVER.... is war somehow NOT Evil when your warring on an evil person/nation. My mother taught me something along time ago. "Two wrongs don't make a right."

I am so torn on this issue. I don't know how to feel. My best freind Justin, is on his way to the Middle east on the USS Nimitz. I fear and pray for his safty. That is the only thing I am sure about. We have to support our troops. They dont have a choice, they are just taking orders. They are just like me and you. Justin is a great man. He belives whole heartedly in what he's doing. He belives it so much that he is willing to lay his life down. Geeze...im getting rather emotional right now, because these Troops are our freinds, family, fathers, brothers.... they are going to take lives. I hate this. But we must support our troops. Most really belive in what their going to do. Maybe they have been brainwashed, maybe not. Non the less. Keep them in you thoughts, and even more in your prayers.