USA - Iraq (part 7387c)

[sirrahj]

What we need to ask those who object to military action so loudly, is "What is the solution?" Watching CNN when I am supposed to be writing a paper, I just watched it reported that both France and Russia are requesting, no, demanding a peaceful solution. Ok... what IS that solution? There is nothing specific behind those statements and it has been the same frell that I have been hearing for some months now. Also - the objectors - are they truly objecting for the reason of peace, or because they perhaps, just perhaps have a stake of sorts already tied up in that locale?

I still say the US/UK/AUS and any other units pull out of the Gulf now and let France, Russia and any other objectors handle this situation in Iraq; obviously we are not performing to par, so let's move out of the way and let those other ideas happen. The US needs to refocus on our own issues and the 'War on Terrorism.'

We should be focusing on our own economy and people. I am tired of seeing our flag burned in other countries becuase we have not handled situations to those people's liking. Is that an answer? Or would our flag be burned more often? Again - what is the right specific answer that would satisfy at least most of the world?

[TheLabel]

I live in the US and it seems to me that most people are anti-war and anti-Bush. This is due to the sad fact and most people here in the US don't know anything about politics. These are the people who have jumped on the anti-Bush bandwagon and constantly talk about "bushisms" when in fact they have no idea what is going on.

Personally, I support a war in Iraq, but it should be a swift, powerful attack against military targets. The only thing I am really worried about is if Saddam uses his biological/chemical/nuclear weapons on our soldiers or launches them at Israel. In my opinion, Saddam launching weapons against Israel or any other target in the area will happen eventually if he is not removed from power.

Some people say that Bush is just mad because Saddam tried to kill his father. I can see why some people might say this but it is not really true. What we did in the Gulf War was help Kuwait when they were invaded by Iraq. Saddam never tried to kill Bush Sr. in any way really.

Overall I hope we attack Iraq and have a swift, total victory with as few casualties as possible and no use of weapons of mass destruction.

[i386]

War , war , war this is sad ! I am not agree with any war .. We have in here there good opinions about this .... Anyway if all in this world (the world great powers) had belived the path of war is not going anywhere .. problably not even first world war started ...
And now if the things are going like they do we are aproching the third war .. and i am not so shure if this is indicated for any of us and the rest of the human beens ...

This is my opinion ...

Cya .... may GOD have mercy on us ....

[Semper_Fidelis]

"The men who create power make an indespensable contribution to the nation's greatness, but the men who question power make a contribution just as indespensable, especially when that questioning is disinterested, for they determine whether we use power or power uses us."
J.F.K
October 26, 1963

[firestarter5]

I especially enjoy the comments "we don't use chemical weapons on our own people". That may be "somewhat" true, but Donny Rumsfeld and the boys sure didn't mind stocking up Saddam with those weapons way back when did they?

North Korea is over there, banging the snot out of its cage saying they'll nuke anything that threatens them.

Iraq has it's back against the wall and has continually said, "we have nothing...come look".

So it looks somewhat strange that Dubya is focusing all his aggression on Iraq. I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the "fact" that Iraq has a confirmed 112 billion barrels of oil under its feet.

Powell, who has the highest approval ratings of anyone in the Bush admin, is now being used as target practice since George can't open his mouth without tanking the stock market.

Rumsfeld. What an ass.

Tony Blair. "Look at this dossier we have"....(proven to be plagerized from a 1991 student thesis)......"er, ah, umm, hmm, oh..never mind"

America is a great place. Unfortunately they happen to have an ass running the show, who, with his gang of idiots (I exclude Colin Powell), has managed to erode 226 years of pretty impressive global prosperity and friendship, in just a few short years.

At least with Clinton, the only thing getting blown up, was located in his pants. (Please don't enlighten me about Oklahoma City and the Murrah building or the original WTC explosion which happened on Clintons watch. Both those stories have more gaping holes than a Palestinian fruit stand)

Saddam is a headache. Most people get rid of a headache with a couple aspirins. Dubya is set to launch 700+ rockets into Iraq. Newsflash George: You don't kill a headache by cutting off the head. Canadian military snipers can take out targets over 2000 yards away. Maybe you should give em' a call.

[Xylinx]

Its funny how I see the thoughts of AO members in other counties so passive on this issue...Do keep in mind that if it was in your backyard you would be a little more concerned.

Yeah I guess I am biased as well since we lost so many people in 9/11 and was Saddam involved with BinLaden in which whom was in that terroist cell intellegence has found that to be relevent.

These terrorist cells are against freedom and whom is that? Why does many want to come here?

Remember this; if these terrorists succeed in ruining this freedom (many years of blood and sweat for what we have fought for) in the USA what makes you think they wont come after you?? And who will be there for you when you need them?

Do you remember the day that Saddam was "elected" into power? What happened? Many people of that government were killed. Not to mention a city...(WOD) What do you think killed them?? MOD????? What kind of person do you think Saddam is?? Do you think he's a man you can reason with???

2+2...Come on people...as always when other countries need us we are there...When we need them...We stand alone...

Whatever...I came here to talk about computers not "part 7387c"

[SoggyBottom]

I recently got sent this quote from Albert Einstein that really got me thinking, and I think that it is relevant to this particular thread and about war in general.

I apologise if it has been posted previously...

It really comes down to a very basic choice that we have to make as a civilisation:

Either:

we will learn to bury the animosities of our ethnocentric, militant traditions and come down to understand that Earth's survival depends on our collective, unified participation...

or

we will sustain this cycle of violence and revenge until humanity is returned to the state of primitivity and, Earth, reduced to the rubble of antiquity.

It's really up to us...

How very true...

[Negative]

Originally posted by Xylinx
Its funny how I see the thoughts of AO members in other counties so passive on this issue...Do keep in mind that if it was in your backyard you would be a little more concerned.

How is Iraq in your backyard? We Europeans are right inbetween Iraq and the US... More our backyard than it is yours...
I'll explain to you why we are so 'passive' about this in a little...

Yeah I guess I am biased as well since we lost so many people in 9/11 and was Saddam involved with BinLaden in which whom was in that terroist cell intellegence has found that to be relevent.

Saddam involved with Bin Laden? How?
The American Intelligence community has seen the light... They've discovered that the danger is in the unknown, more particularly in the 'unknown unknown'. The unknown consists of what one knows that he doesn't know (the known unknown), and that what one doesn't even know he doesn't know (the the unknown unknown). And that, according to Donald Rumsfeld, is what the Intelligence Community should focus on... the unknown unknown.
Traditionally, intelligence services gather factual information (tapped phones, satellite intel, spies,...). This mass of information then is translated, filtered, grouped, and analysed. What's left over will be the basis of a hypothesis, on which the government will base it's policy.
The "problem" with this method is that you'll only find things you only knew, or, in the best case, things you knew you didn't know yet (indeed, the known unknown).
Enter Rumsfeld and the unknown unknown. Rumsfeld orders Intelligence services to reverse their way of operation: they'll have to start from a hypothesis, then look for factual information, and finally interprete that information so that it serves the hypothesis. Enter Bush and the TTIC (Terrorist Threat Integration Center).
The result: because the CIA kept on minimizing the link between Al-Qaeda and Iraq, the Pentagon accused the CIA of being 'pigeons'. Colin Powell, dubbed with the 'pigeon' image as well, didn't have a choice: last Wednesday, he tried to convince the world that there IS a connection between Al-Qaeda and Iraq.

Am I making this up? Nah... just read the most recent The New York Times:
"Rumsfeld deserves a lot of credit for challenging the conventional wisdom and burocracy", CIA-director Tenet told The NYT. "We insist that intelligence often is not about proof, but about the lack of proof".... DOH.

Now, about our 'passive-ness'...
'Inexcusable'... that's what Powell called, amongst others, Belgiums stance in the Nato concerning Iraq. Powells reaction followed on an announcement by France, Germany and Belgium that they will use their veto against indirect military support, more exactly military support for Turkey. Why are we doing this? Because public opinion in most of Europe is against a war and we live in democracies, plain and simple. Rumsfeld lost his 'cool' when he found out that Germany and France have been working on an alternative plan ('Project Mirage'): their plan is to tripple weapons-inspections, bring UN-soldiers to Iraq to supervise the disarmament of Iraq (which would turn Iraq into UN-controlled territory), prohibit air-flight above Iraq, and have Mirage IV planes patrol the area. An Iraqi violation would be sanctioned, and there would be a strict control of Iraqi import, also preventing it from smuggling oil.
25,000 Germans were protesting outside the building where Rumsfeld was claiming that 'there is no difference of opinion between the German and the American people; just the governments differ in opinion'.

Bush and company can't seem to get used to the idea that at the other end of the Atlantic, people also can think for themselves.
Once again, the American government showed their lack of diplomacy. The US talking about 'the Old Europe'... Maybe they should remember that the Old Europe was the Europe of nationalism, kolonialism and war. Luckily enough, we're way beyond that stage already...
'Inexcusable'? Whatever...

[TheLabel]

XyLink is right. He means that terrorism (not Iraq) is/has happened right in our backyard. A lot of people in other countries would have very different opinions if they had been watching two towers in their biggest city be destroyed. You have no idea what if felt like on september 11th unless you live here in the US.

Iraq is a country that could be very rich due to oil, but unfortunately the Iraqi government is extremely corrupt and the leader is a madman. Do you honestly believe that Saddam was elected by 100% of the people? There was no democratic election. Saddam starves and kills his own people, keeping them in constant fear. Obviously a regime change is in order. Saddam is a threat to the region and is own people, he is a tyrant who will do anything to add to his power.

And people please don't complain about Bush. A complete idiot wouldn't get elected president. Or would you have liked to have Gore elcected? He wouldn't have done anything after september 11th.

[SoggyBottom]

I fail to see what exactly Sept 11 has to do with Saddam?

There are a lot of dictators and leaders of countries that are extremely corrupt around the world, and there are also a lot of countries around the world that have admitted to possess weapons of mass destruction.

Im sure the reason why the US has singled out Iraq has abolsutely nothing to do with the billions of barrels of oil that they are sitting on. </sarcasm>