network LAN design help!!
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Thread: network LAN design help!!

  1. #1
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    network LAN design help!!

    i am just about finnished getting my ccna and we have a tcs ( threaded case study) and basicly i have to design a lan for 11 schools from the gound up , and tie them together

    now i was wondering actually thinkin of going mainframe for security reasons and the overall save in labor and cost associated with standard workstations over terminals

    basicly i am in need of ideas pro and con tward mainframe teminal commputing and lan and network set up

    i was thinkin of usin a 10 gig foundry ( web page accelerator) and a thin client and maybe 3 com audry

    also i was leaning twards linux se or openBSD to ease the cost of licencing depending on the terms this will help make my proposal more appealing :-D

    dunno i figure maybe i can get a few tips and a lil support all ideas and veiws welcome thanks
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  2. #2
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    now i was wondering actually thinkin of going mainframe for security reasons and the overall save in labor and cost associated with standard workstations over terminals
    Just a quick questions regarding this. What are the security reasons for you choosing a Mainframe? Are you under the impression that Mainframes provide greater security?

    I think that you will find that large companies are moving away from Mainframes due to financial reasons. I thin kthat current trend uis for companies to "web-enable" all their in-house applications.

    This way you dont need a variety of different teams with different expertise to support them etc...
    SoggyBottom.

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  3. #3
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    yes security becaue a kid cannot put a disk in the terminal lol

    ok well here is the stuff i read and ok so what do u suggest i would like to implement something that can provide the best of both worlds
    basicly to have terminals and policy based routing applied secure as it can be
    thanks


    due to the range of disparate legacy systems (mainframes, databases, etc ... solutions are successfully operating in 90% of the Fortune 500 companies

    extending legacy applications
    Currently, 70% of mission-critical data resides on mainframes, corresponding to $30 trillion of resident host applications. Migrating to modern data repositories can be enormously expensive - costing an average of $1.50 per line of code. Therefore, cost-conscious companies are holding onto their legacy systems, while seeking new ways to use the information that resides within them.




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  4. #4
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    Well, if the fortune 500 companies jumped off a bridge, would you?

    How many Fortune 500 companies are schools?
    How many schools do you know of that have Mainframes?
    Have you had a look at the cost of purchasing Mainframe Technology, as well as support and maintenance costs?

    Mainframes do have a purpose in large companies, but choosing to use them because the Fortune 500 companies have them seems a little unjustified, and personally, I dont see the benefits from a security perspective over any alternatives. I would like to hear your reasoning about why a mainframe is a better alternative from purely a security perspective.

    I have heard that a reason why people still use mainframes is cause kiddies dont know the technology, so they wouldnt know what to do. In my opinion, this isnt a security minded statement.
    SoggyBottom.

    [glowpurple]There were so many fewer questions when the stars where still just the holes to heaven - JJ[/glowpurple] [gloworange]I sure could use a vacation from this bull$hit, three ringed circus side show of freaks. - Tool. [/gloworange]

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    Contrary to the popular opinion, a mainframe is not a bad idea. Look at IBMs'
    Z processors. They are relatively inexpensive , powerful and flexable. But the
    mainframe is not the total answer. It is simply the central data repository. Each
    school might want their own data store which is not connected to the main data
    store. The main data could be on a mainframe and schools could have their own
    simpler LANs.

    I haven't seen a virus or worm written for a mainframe. They are secure and there are
    security measures that can enhance them. The cost of programming is propblbly the
    same as it would be for a LAN. And I know of schools that use the mainframe as a
    central data source.

  6. #6
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    Ive helped design a school Lan before and it was insisted upon that it consisted of Microsoft Operating systems. So I set up two servers at each site. One as the Highschool domain and the other as the middle school domain. I set up trusts between them because the highschool needed access to the files on the middleschool domain. Used dhcp server at each site to lease ip's to the workstations. It all depends on what kind of school you are doing this for and what they would like.
    Ben Franklin said it best. \"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.\"

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    Wink

    Hey Iím in the same CCNA course as you and I know what youíre going though. I have worked on similar projects in the pass and Iíll tell you Iíve enjoyed every moment.

    I do have one tip that I learned long ago that has always helped me: Keep It Simple.

    I have always had a hard time following this advice. I like to find new toys to play with, and love to show it off to others. BUT, this is the real word. You are learning to become an Admin or design consultant and have to look at the big picture. I am an Admin for a school district and I know what type of money they have. My department tried to push for a grant to hire 6 new network admins last year, but we didnít get the money! Right now the average tech in this district maintains about 1,300 to 1,500 PCs. We need more Admins and techs but we just donít have the money.

    My point is that you have to come up with a solution that not only fits the security, resource, and web needs, but also come in under a budget that gives you no room for air.

    I think your idea about the mainframe would be fun, and I would love to play with it. But as was brought out early, a mainframe system would:

    1. Cost more to build.
    I know the price is coming down, but you also have to hire Specialists to come in and install the system.

    2. Costs more to maintain.
    You will have to hire specialists and or train new employees to maintain the system.

    One more thing to think about: the more complex you make this project; the more time it will take for you to complete it. And as we all know time is money.

    I would just keep it easy, nice and simple. I would go with Active Directory (yeah I know its M$ , but hey, itís simple and it works.). You can set what is called Group Police Objects at the Site, Domain, OU, or even local level to maintain security. Using GPOs you can lock down any PC that logs on to your domain. The great thing is that you donít need to buy any software to implement GPOs. Built right in to the AD and will work almost as good as Deep Freeze or Foolproof.

    Any way, thatís my $.02. Just trying to help. If you want any advice about AD, I may not be a CCNA, but I am MCSA and MCSE certified and would be happy to help. I am right now in semester 4 of Cisco.

    Cheers!
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  8. #8
    Senior Member cwk9's Avatar
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    I say go for it. There is no right answer to the case study you just need a good justification of your design. As long as you do the work and put some effort in you should get a good mark even if you design is a little out of the ordinary. I also got a TCS coming up and Iíve decided to go heavy into wireless. It may not be the most economical option but its more interesting then doing the plain old cat5 to patch panel. A class mate of mine decided heíd like to build a token ring network. If nothing else your TCS will stand out and youíll learn something new.

    Might want to take a look at these links
    http://www.mainframes.com/index.html
    http://www.mainframeweek.com/extra/dinosaur.html
    http://www.computerworld.com/hardwar...frames?from=yn
    http://www.geocities.com/vasudevanvr...s/mfdienot.htm
    http://www.mainframeweek.com/journals/show.php/0055/1

  9. #9
    Senior Member Spyrus's Avatar
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    I am not sure what type of schools you are supposed to be doing this with, elementary, high, middle, univeristy, all the above or a combination. But I would reccommend that you take a look at what type of connection you want between all of them first, how many users are going to be taking advantage? bandwidth out? over all budget? Os you plan on running?

    also i was leaning twards linux se or openBSD to ease the cost of licencing depending on the terms this will help make my proposal more appealing :-D
    Obviously you like the idea of linux but the problem is most children are brought up and used to windows in their school systems. If not windows others are running macintosh ( i can see most of you cringing but its true). If you go windows a 2000 Active directory setup would be a good setup, not sure if you need failsafe servers or how much storage space you need but I ran across a thin client server that was called a blade. they are cheap and small, about the size a pcmcia card and about 1.5-2 feet deep.

    Desktops, not sure how many you need but probably one for each teacher, library and computer labs. Check out dell they offer a great deal and comes with like a 3 year service agreement. Dont rely on the base website costs, schools and corps get a huge discount. Also remember to take all taxes out of your prices (schools are exempt).

    Network, router for each place, switches, cables storage rack. you have the choice of a server at each school or maybe 2 or 3 servers to allow for failures. I would recommend you drop a d mark into each school and have someone like sprint keep them all connected through one office and then have that main school with the full bandwidth going outwards. You will then be able to monitor all the outgoing traffic and limit however you want. you can then choose if you want fractional T lines from the schools to the main source and whatever out of there.

    I think you should just throw it all together grab one big piece of paper a pencil and start drawing it out. then you can implement prices and different ideas.

    Let us know what you end up choosing
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  10. #10
    Fastest Thing Alive s0nIc's Avatar
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    well i think i can tell you how my collage was set up.. we have workstations on winXP.. all of them connected to Servers which runs DHCP, DNS and Active Directory. its a Windows 2000 Advanced Server.. each branch is set up thesame. theres a PDC and a BDC. and a Gateway which connects all branches together.. we have about 3 servers. 2 runs DNS, DHCP and AD for backup purposes.. they also have 2 HDD each. the primary HDD (which has smaller space) is used for administration and the 2ndary HDD (which has a bigger space than the primary) is used to also make the servers as File Servers. Files which only faculty uses. and the gateway is on a switch. the swicth is connected to a patch pannel where the workstations are connected.. the gateway then is connected or linked to the institute's main Internet Servers. Downside of it is if the internet server incharge of our branch goes down, no one on our branch can access the net. i dunno.. too many details.. ill probably type it up in a doc file and send it to u.

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