Lawsuit to block US-Iraq war?
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Thread: Lawsuit to block US-Iraq war?

  1. #1
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    Lawsuit to block US-Iraq war?

    Greetings All,
    I came upon this interesting article and I am intrigued to see the reactions to it from the AO community as a whole.

    http://www.boston.com/news/daily/13/lawsuit.htm

    I have been reading a few posts on here regarding Iraq, the UN and our European friends. This article may prove to be an interesting new wrinkle in all these discussions. My question is does this lawsuit have merit? Clearly Bush should have to consult and have agreement from elected officials which represent the American people.
    Should Bush be able to go to war without congressional approval? If so why? The only situation I can see justifying going to war without approval would be an overwhelming and urgent national security breach! Say a nuclear weapon detonating in the US. Does Iraq pose such a threat? Or does North Korea? If Bush were to go to war without consent from congress would this be a violation of the oath he took when he began his office? Will the real voice of the world ever reach beyond our politicians and industries grasp? I look forward to your comments.

    cheers

    captfb
    [glowpurple]\"I like to think of myself as a sensitive inteliigent person with the soul of a clown that forces me to blow it at the most important times.\" Jim Morrison[/glowpurple]

  2. #2
    Priapistic Monk KorpDeath's Avatar
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    He's already had congressional approval. And every lawsuit to this effect previously has been thrown out. Precedence??? Can you say legal precedence. Not to mention you don't see any REAL military people getting into this lawsuit, just a bunch of weekend warriors who probably thought they were safe from actually having to defend their country. (And before you start, I'm not saying every reservist is like that but I'll bet their parents who are involved in this are thinking that their safe plan to have their son/daughter serve in the military just got screwed.)

    If you think we should wait until they detonate a bomb in the U.S I hope it's in YOUR backyard.... ( my opinion, of course, holds little water online, as does everyone's.)

    Damn Bush Sr. should've said "Damn the torpedoes, we're going for Baghdad!" And then we wouldn't be in this stupid situation.

    See kids, see what happens when you don't finish something you start???

    I don't start fights, I finish them. Always have.
    Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant than would take even a little trouble to acquire it.
    - Samuel Johnson

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    Funny thing is though, that as Commander-In-Chief, Pres. Bush has overall command of all troops, so war does not have to be declared before a military action can take place. Believe me as it has happened while I was in the service.

    The lawsuit is a novel idea. Not sure if it will just get kicked out. As I have stated before, we should be going (more publically) after Bin Laden and practicing our 'draw & quarter' techniques.

    I think something else that is funny is I wonder how many senators and reps of the House have relatives 1) in the service and 2) going to or already in Iraq.

    I have to also agree with KorpDeath on this one:

    Bush Sr. should've said "Damn the torpedoes, we're going for Baghdad!" And then we wouldn't be in this stupid situation. ee kids, see what happens when you don't finish something you start???
    Though I still wonder what would have happened to Iraq without Saddam then and if we do go in soon(?)

  4. #4
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    Ahhhhh, Yes..... The Good Mr. Conyers........

    This is the gentleman who's constituency consists largely of southeastern Michigan with it's population skewed heavily in favor of the Blacks, (I'm not being racist here.... I'm being observant.....). Every time he is up for re-election he goes on this big crusade for "reparations for slavery" and how all blacks should be getting $13-14000 and up to pay them back for their "suffering"....... Then, as soon as he is elected he shuts up and forgets about his promise for the reparations except for a squeak every two years or so to maintain the pretence that he really is trying.........

    Sorry this man is a loser and everything he does is like a three legged donkey in the Grand National.... A non-starter!!!!!
    Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides

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    Even though I and most Americans, including those who live in the United States, don't like it, the president of the United States can order the military in without a declaration of war.

  6. #6
    Senior Member The Old Man's Avatar
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    Good thoughts above on the subject. KD's response was accurate, TS has been keeping up with current affairs... Went to the article in captfb's link, had to smile at the lineup of characters in this play. Attorneys who get paid for whatever cause they can find, talking-head politicians poking their faces into the limelight wherever it may briefly shine, and finally the main stars of this act in this play: Those fine young citizens who joined the NG or Reserves, took their pay, wore the clothes, ate the food, went to school, sucked up the training and equipment.... and now they don't want to play anymore since there may be hot lead in the game. Even more amusing, their mommies and daddies are worried now, but they were happy as hell when junior was getting a free education in uniform compliments of the U.S. Military Budget, time and sponsoring. At the last major callup, about 1990 you remember, there were a handful (thankfully only a handfull) of crybabies in the local papers and on local TV whining that they just could not financially stand to go to war. It didn't matter that they had sucked up many years of higher education, were doctors, dentists and so on, they just could not stand to go to war. Well, they went anyway. Their cars didn't get repo'd, nor did their houses or whatever else their NG/Reserve pay had been paying for back through time, because the Soldiers & Sailors Act forbid forclosures on activated citizens, including Reservists.
    I had one personally satisfying event with one of those types; At a visit to one Reserve Unit there was a group of soldiers smokin' and jokin' on the front steps. One, a city policeman in the 'real world' who was also a Reserve Sgt, was smiling, smoking and telling the others that he would not have to go, because he was in a "critical ocupation". I stopped, looked at him closely and asked; "Do you *really* believe that, or are you just b.s.'ing these guys?" He replied; "I'm serious, of course, it's in the draft law about critical occupations, and police are listed." I smiled, looked around at the others who wore expressions of confusion, and replied to our brave city policeman; "Well, pardner, have I got news for you; you've confused the draft law with the activation of reserve units law. You've been eating our food, wearing our clothes, spending our money for years now, and there is no such thing as 'critical occupation' in the works for you, sergeant, *you* are going to *war* with the rest of these guys, whether you like it or not, and I can guarantee you the Police Chief will *not* consider any request that you be excluded. In fact, I'll be talking with him today and we'll make sure you understand your military obligation!" The other guys looked pleased, snuffed their smokes and went back to training, and our brave city officer started coughing, then puked his guts out in the bushes until he was so weak he could hardly stand.
    And that made my day, demon that i probably am. And these other fine young citizens in the link above who have been wearing the clothes, eating the food, going to college and paying their bills with their Reserve/NG pay get not one ounce of sympathy from me now that it's time for them to do their duty. On the other hand, they probably wouldn't be worth a pinch of puppy-s#1t anyway, about the calibre of the city cop puking his guts out.
    And that's MHO of this Boston lawsuit, for what it's worth in this increasingly chicken-s#1t society we've apparently spawned over the past years.

  7. #7
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    Well put Old Man. I agree completly. If you signed up voluntrarily you have no right to b!@#$ about being called up. As for the lawsuite I think it will get tossed but like others have said in this post the president can bomb/invade without an act of war.

    Cheers,
    -D
    If you spend more on coffee than on IT security, you will be hacked. What\'s more, you deserve to be hacked.
    -- former White House cybersecurity adviser Richard Clarke

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    TEST

  9. #9
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    Old Man: I had a similar experience but mine was with a volunteer.....

    I was a super-duper-para-trooper on a small unit of the RAF at the time of the Falklands and our annual trips to Northern Ireland. Since we were "dummies" we couldn't do certain things like administer ourselves, cook for ourselves or fix our vehicles, weapons and radios. So RAF tradesmen were asked to volunteer for parachute training to service our needs.....<s> We had been put on 48 hr standby for the Falklands and were in the airmens club having a few wet ones... (I can't say cold ones 'cos this was in the UK....<LOL>). I'm chatting to our radio tech who is most worried about the whole affair..... Turns out he only joined up to "learn a trade".... I asked him if he had ever considered the possibility that he might find himself in a little shooting match.... He never had.... after all he was a radio tech and he came to my unit 'cos he got extra pay!!!!!!!

    <rant>
    Same as you..... No sympathy whatsoever!!!!! IMO, if you make _any_ commitment to the Armed Forces your primary understanding _has_ to be that you _will_ be sent to _fight_ for your country at some point and there is a high possibility that you will be killed or permanently maimed!!! If you aren't then you lucked out, period. If you can't make the commitment with that understanding then you have no business "watering" down the pool of good men and women who do..... None of the professionals want a weak willed, whining non-com behind them when the $h!t hits the fan. They should all be placed in a unt of their own and put in front of the professionals so at least they can see what is going on with them rather than have to be looking over their shoulder to make sure they are still there!!!!!!
    </rant>

    And I'm in a good mood today......
    Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides

  10. #10
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    I have one as well.

    Before Desert Storm really kicked off, most of our units were continually in the field drilling in case we were called up. We all knew the possibility existed, hell most of us (myself included) were chomping at the bit. We had made sure dog tags, wills and the like had been completed. And there we were, out at least two weeks every month in the woods or somewhere else, getting ready for war. We even had ambush, recon patrol and defense drills worked in - and we are MI! It was cool. We were ready to 'eat the boogers out of a dead man's nose and ask for seconds.' We aspirations of even considering advanced combat training like Airborne and even Ranger school. That is how pumped up we were, it was infectious, and most of us were Intel and IT geeks.

    Then it came. A group of us, while already in the field, were gathered and were ordered for 72 hour alert status to go. What was most remarkable in the time that we were told, was the varying colors of people's face once we heard the news. I was ready to fill my pants when asked "Do you guys have your wills done?" As we all muttered the automated responses, it began to sink in. And then something weird happened, we all did the "Hoo-Ya" yell, looked at each other and went back to work. As my wife was also in the field, she any other soldiers who had male/female spouses, were sent back to double-check certain affairs and bring back anything we needed. Two days later we found out we were not going. Again, I almost filled my pants.

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