War has started

[Specter6]

Desert Storm I, was about liberating Kuwait after Hussein ordered his troops into a small neighboring country.

Desert Storm II "The Sandbox Revisited", is about Hussein continuing to develop and possess weapons of mass destruction. Which he has used against his own women and children.

Right now Iraq produces 2.5 million barrels of oil per day with antiquated technology. It is projected that with updated technology they can produce more than 10x that and will be able to rival the Saudis in production and give them some competition, thereby dropping oil (and subsequently gas) prices.

The bleeding hearts out there will whine and cry that there has not been enough proof, that they do not understand why people must die. Well, there has been proof. Inspectors found missiles that had been fitted to deliver chemical and/or biological payloads. And people must die now to save more lives in the future.

Leaving Hussein in power will ensure that Iraq will not be a prosperous nation and that it's people will continue to suffer under a dictator who has an unbelievably horrific record of abuse towards his own people.

The US military is highly trained. They have highly evolved weapons systems. Loss of civilian life will be kept as minimal as possible. Hussein's regime will inflate the casualty and fatality numbers to attempt to sway world opinion; we know it'll happen. But I can tell you from my own experiences, the loss of innocent lives will be highly avoided.

[linuxelite]

Geez people, who said I don't feel sorry for those starving and dying? I do, I was just relating something that, I am pretty sure, affects us all, gas prices, I was trying to start up a conversation. I don't like war any more than most of you do, it isn't something to be rejoiced at, I'm trying to say, that this war shouldn't take place. I realize I risk AP censure, but, well, gas prices are high, and I think that we'd all be better off if no war took place. Instead, a ton of countries are spending tons of money, to destroy a nation that is, in reality, very backwards in a technological way. Hell, I look at this speech of Saddam Hussein, and I feel sorry for the guy, I can't help it, he's old, how much stress could he possibly take? The fear he must feel, is something that makes me feel a great deal of pity for him, so please, don't tell me I don't feel this or that, because you people really just don't know.
And don't ask me to feel pity for the people putting their lives on the line, because I think this was is immoral, so I can't feel very much for those who would prosecute a war against those who don't stand a chance, when factoring in things such as air power, combined troop numbers, technology etc.

[mathgirl32]

I'm trying to say, that this war shouldn't take place.

I think it should.
Call me a freak but I support my country.

It's okay to have different opinions.

[linuxelite]

The bleeding hearts out there will whine and cry that there has not been enough proof, that they do not understand why people must die. Well, there has been proof. Inspectors found missiles that had been fitted to deliver chemical and/or biological payloads.

God, their missiles can't fly across the ocean. And they only others they might attack would be kuwait or israel, either way Iraq would get beaten back, they know that. So, tell me again why this war has to happen?

Also, people could you please help me keep this thread as AP free as possible? Please do so, as I have seen many threads become AP shops when people see what others get greenies for and decide to post something very similar. I really do not wish to have any fake opinions here, they only cheapen the thread, as well as the quality of the discussion in the thread. I also do not wish to have somebody decide not to post, because they fear AP censure, so please, everyone, help me keep this thread AP free, and as honest as possible.
I appreciate your understanding, and cooperation, thank you.

[HTRegz]

I have to agree with linuxelite on the AP issue, so i pose this question to the moderators:

Is it possible to have the AP assignment button removed from this thread? I think we can all trust you to remove those posts/people who made rude comments and such, but this should be a place where we can openly express our opinions on this current event..

With that said.. I can hear you all groaning already, "Oh no! Here comes one of those Anti-American, Anti-War, Pro-Human Life speeches." Well I promise not to disappoint.

Those of you who are American and support the war, I must commend you for your patriotism. It's easy to support someone when they are doing a good thing, but when they are doing a bad thing it's very hard to voice your support. For you Americans who are against the war, I also commend you for your bravery in speaking out against attrocious acts being commited by your country.

I do feel very bad for the loss of life that will occur, but not for the Americans. The Iraqi's have no weapons that can even reach your shores and take innocent lives. Yet your military will be over their killing innocent people by the 100s like they do in every war. If that same person shot a man in texas, you'd demand the death penalty, but because he's doing it while at "war" (can we even really call it that) you are applauding him for defending your nation. I feel bad for the families who will lose loved ones because of the war, but right now they are over their of their own free will.. there's no draft yet, they could leave. Maybe the best thing to do would be to let the Iraqi's kill one innocent American/British/Any Other country Participating, for each innocent Iraqi they kill. If Canada does go to war (I still pray they don't) I would gladly give my life in exchange for an innocent life that a Canadian solider took.

One of the first posts in this thread gas prices were metioned, and rightly so. That's what this war is about. Iraq could never attack America, not with their current technology. The American Government (I almost said American's but i corrected myself) wants to lower gas prices and if they control Iraq they can do that.

Right now Iraq produces 2.5 million barrels of oil per day with antiquated technology. It is projected that with updated technology they can produce more than 10x that and will be able to rival the Saudis in production and give them some competition, thereby dropping oil (and subsequently gas) prices.

While the rest of what Specter6 said is half truths, that is entirely the truth. The American Government wants those gas price drops to occur.

I will pray every night for this war to end. It is a useless event that will bring no good and only a loss of life. I will also pray for the families of those involved in the war war, and for the souls of the innocent people who die. I will also pray for the military men (and women) involved in the war but I will _NOT_ pray for their souls. They have condemned their souls already by stepping onto the battlefield. I hope the lack of life stays at a minimum, but if foolish pride keeps them out there and get's them killed, so be it.

[Blankman71]

Wars, for any reason, are a very unfortunate part of life. I remember hearing an old paradox, "If you want peace, then you must prepare for war." I think that in these situations it's best to take a step back, look at what we have and be appreciative that we have the opportunity to enjoy it all. If you feel a little nervous and/or upset about the current situation, as many do, perhaps try a quick prayer, or a not so quick one if you're in the mood. There are some very capable and talented people fighting, here's hoping they all come home no worse for the wear.

[linuxelite]

Hey HT, not only that, but, oil is power, everybody needs it, it is expensive, having control of it, is a very powerful thing.

[Specter6]

Originally posted by HTRegz
I do feel very bad for the loss of life that will occur, but not for the Americans. The Iraqi's have no weapons that can even reach your shores and take innocent lives. Yet your military will be over their killing innocent people by the 100s like they do in every war.

Sure the Iraqis may not have weapons that can reach our shores, but they do have weapons that can reach our allies and support the people who did reach our shores prior to Sept. 11th, killing thousands including some of your countrymen.

If that same person shot a man in texas, you'd demand the death penalty, but because he's doing it while at "war" (can we even really call it that) you are applauding him for defending your nation.

In Texas, you kill somebody you get executed. And I applaud their efforts in that state. What’s your point?

I feel bad for the families who will lose loved ones because of the war, but right now they are over their of their own free will.. there's no draft yet, they could leave. Maybe the best thing to do would be to let the Iraqi's kill one innocent American/British/Any Other country Participating, for each innocent Iraqi they kill.

Obviously, you have no sense of duty or obligation. True, there is no draft and we currently have an all-volunteer military, but when folks join, they sign a legally binding contract, so no, they cannot leave, they are legally (and hopefully morally) bound to live up to their obligations.

Since you’re on the line of killing people – maybe we should kill one Iraqi soldier for every innocent Iraqi and Kurd they have killed following the orders of Hussein… Or possibly two for one for those who died at the hands of the terrorist networks they support and refuse to cut off aid.

While the rest of what Specter6 said is half truths, that is entirely the truth. The American Government wants those gas price drops to occur.

Half-truths? Such as? If you’re going to attack my statements, let’s be specific. Don’t hide behind your screen and take pot shots at me if you cannot cite specifics and defend them. I’m sure as a non-combatant you know more about war in the region than I …

I will also pray for the families of those involved in the war war, and for the souls of the innocent people who die. I will also pray for the military men (and women) involved in the war but I will _NOT_ pray for their souls. They have condemned their souls already by stepping onto the battlefield. I hope the lack of life stays at a minimum, but if foolish pride keeps them out there and get's them killed, so be it.

“Condemned their souls…?” By doing their jobs? “Foolish pride?” How about putting food on the table and serving their country?

I’m not sure how things work in Canada, but being in the military is a job here in America. And sometimes that job includes going to war. By it’s very nature it implies that! You sound like the whiny-assed Reservists and National Guardsmen during Desert Shield/Storm who cried and complained about being deployed. “I only signed up for the benefits, I never wanted to go to war.” Well, agree with it or not, war has been a part of human nature since we first were able to fashion clubs from sticks. It’s gonna happen. It’s never pretty and there are no guarantees. But sometimes it is necessary.

And if you’ve been watching any of the coverage, you’ll notice that there have been long spans of time between strikes that allow PsyOps to drop more leaflets and contact the Iraqi commanders and continue to try to persuade them to surrender. They have been told how to surrender and where. Troops who wish to give up will be spared; troops who choose to fight will be destroyed. It is their choices that will influence whether they live or die. It’s not like we are leveling entire cities, so stop acting that way. Baghdad has been hit pretty hard at this point, but they still have power and water, this is all in consideration of the thousands of innocent civilians that Hussein is using to shield military targets.

What happened to your awe of American Patriotism?

PS – I do have to agree tough, that APs for non-security related posts is asinine. This is an area to voice your opinions and discuss issues, not be punished for your views.

[KorpDeath]

Originally posted here by debwalin



I can't say anything more. Innocent women, children and elderly are dying right now as we talk about gas prices. Can anything be more important than that? No matter your opinion of this war, don't you have compassion for the innocent who are being killed right now? It's unspeakably sad to me.

Deb

Those are the women, children, and elderly being killed by SoDamn Insane, right Deb?

[HTRegz]

Here's a list of facts if you want examples of the US government sticking their noses in others business (This list comes from Bowling from Columbine, an American Documentry made by an American) -- Specter6, I direct you to the bolded point. You claim American liberated Kuwait, all they did was reinstate a dictator, that's no liberation.

1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as dictator.

1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.


1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.

1963-1975: American military kills 4 million civilians in Southeast Asia.


September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically elected president Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.

1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.


1980's: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.

1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30,000 Nicaraguans die.

1982: U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.

1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to help them kill Iraqis.

1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties


1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.

1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.

1998: Clinton bombs "weapons factory" in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.

1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.


2000-01: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in "aid".

September 11, 2001: Osama Bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000 people.


As far as the what's my point about the death penalty in texas, You applaud them for killing the killers of the innocent, so why not kill the american soldiers who kill innocent civillians. As for a contract in the military, it's been proven before if you don't want to fight, there are ways out of it. And yes all Bush is doing is displaying foolish pride.

anyways have to run i'll post more later.. maybe